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Hi Janey, If Sarah Boyds had been married before would the mothers details have been different, I know that on marriage certificates, for status, it would have stated if she had previously married? I'm not sure it has eluded me for years, this Sarah Boyds problem.

Joanne

Just to reiterate


NO marriage showing on www.freebmd.org.uk between Jnauary 1850 and December 1880 for Edward Howell and Sarah Boy*



sylvia

Phew, okay, I found the thread.

The info in your PMs that I asked you to put here (with spacing so we can follow it)


Edward Howell snr was married x2,
His 1st wife was Elizabeth Burgoyne,
Edward Howell then remarried Sarah Boyds,
It is Sarah Boyds, that I need the proof on as she is my Great Great Grandmother,
I Have the birth certificate of my Great Grandfather, which gives the parents names on and for the mother it says formerly Boyds,


all the info you found is correct as Edard Howell snr married twice,
his 1st wife had 2 or 3 children,
then she died and Edward Howell nremarried Sarah Boyds, but I'm looking for the proof that they did marry.



And the thing is - there doesn't seem to be such proof! Which suggests there is no such marriage.

Unless it was a second marriage for Sarah as well, in which case her surname would have been different for the marriage to Howell.

1851

Name: Sarah Boyde
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Lodger
Where born: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England

Name: Wm Boyde
Age: 1 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Lodger;s Son
Where born: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Shrewsbury St Mary

Elizabeth Hinley 63
Eliz Hinley 23
Sarah Hinley 20
My Hinley 18
Richd Hughes 12
Sarah Boyde 25
Wm Boyde 1 Mo
Eliz Shorland 19


In the 1861 census, there is, with Edward and Sarah:

Edward Howell 11 - born: Liverpool

and you say:

"the 1st child is a Edward Howell b:1850, Liverpool"

Well ... where is he in the 1851 census??

How could Sarah and Edward have had a child in 1850 if Edward's son William Burgoyne Howell was born in 1851??

It's quite possible that Edward Howell in the 1861 census is William Boyde in the 1851 census, infant son of the unmarried Sarah Boyde.

Births Jun 1851 ??
Boyde William Liverpool 20 432


As I understand it, you have one record showing Sarah's surname as Boyds:

"Edward Howell and Sarah Howell formerly Boyds are the Parents of my Great Grandfather Philip Howell, I have a copy of his Birth certificate, Philip Howell was born in 1872"

I wonder how certain you are of the handwriting, and whether Boyde isn't equally possible.


I'm afraid there are too many things being asserted as fact here that just aren't consistent with facts.

Btw, I'll just have to stay confused about this, I guess:

"I have the Baptism record for William Burgoyne Howell, his age on the 1851 census is correct, he was 1 month old"

Births Jun 1839
Howell William Burgoyne Shrewsbury 18 186

There were two William Burgoyne Howell-s?

Not that I can see. And it's odd that a child born in 1851 would not be with the family in 1861 ...



EDWARD HOWELL
Spouse: ELIZABETH BURGOYNE
Marriage: 20 MAY 1837 Saint Chad, Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
Batch No.: M015753

The marriage was in 1837 and son William Burgoyne Howell was born in 1839. Not 1851. Rather obviously. He may have been baptized only around the time of his mother's death.

Since there evidently is no marriage of William Howell(s) to Sarah Boyds, you have two options:

- Sarah had been married previously and married William under a different surname
- Sarah and William did not marry

That's life.

Well, speaking for myself, since my efforts have been so wasted and are of so little interest to you that I have yet to see the words "thank you" anywhere, I'll be done now.

I already subscribe to Ancestry, still no luck there either.

I did not obtain Isaac Howells certificate because, my health does not allow me to work so I only buy the certificates that are really relevant. because of the cost of each certificate, also if hoping did have Issac Howells birth certificate we could have compared the details, with my Great grandfather's. I only receive benifits, so getting every certificate, that you are not sure is the correct one can be very costly. I would rather make sure first, instead of wasting money for nothing.

Edward Howell and Sarah Howell formerly Boyds are the Parents of my Great Grandfather Philip Howell, I have a copy of his Birth certificate, Philip Howell was born in 1872, this is why I'm trying to find the marriage and birth for Sarah Boyds, I have the baptism record for Edward Howell. I also have the baptism records for 2 of the 3 children, of Edward Howells 1st wife Elizabeth Burgoyne, and also his Marriage to Elizabeth Burgoyne as well. But Sarah Boyds is my brick wall. Can not find the marriage or her birth.

I found that birth by searching for ISAAC [no surname] born in Leominster 1852-1855 (in case he was registered under his mother's surname).

With the surname HOWELLS from that record, I searched for EDWARD HOWELLS marrying SARAH [no surname] 1851-1855.

Marriages Mar 1855
? HOWELLS Edward Ludlow 6a 699
? MOYLE Sarah Ludlow 6a 699
MOYLL Sarah Ludlow 6a 699
Preece Mary Ludlow 6a 699
PRICE Thomas Ludlow 6a 699

There's a similarity.

Certainly Isaac's birth cert should say.


This appears to be the Sarah Moyll in question in that marriage record, in 1841:

Name: Sarah Maile
[Sarah Moyll]
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Herefordshire, England

Civil parish: Leominster
County/Island: Herefordshire

Samuel Maile 50
Elisabeth Maile 50
Susan Maile 25
Harriet Maile 20
Sarah Maile 15
Samuel Maile 15


Given the Herefordshire/Shropshire similarities, I think there's a good likelihood that's your woman.

I would also bet that the same person has corrected the surname at both FreeBMD and Ancestry.

The Ancestry correction to her father's surname says:

Moyll rather than Maile
Transcription error, spelling on census is Moile. Other records show name to be Moyll.
Submitted on 02/03/2009

and you can contact that person through the Ancestry system.

Trying again ...

"Edward howell supposedly remarried Sarah Boyds"

hoping asked back last month whether you had the mother's name from a child's birth certificate. ?

If it is "supposedly" as in that's what a submitted record in the IGI says, why not get a child's birth certificate to get the answer? Have you looked for the births at all?

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Isaac Howell in the 1861 census:

Isaac Howell 7 - born: Leominster, Herefordshire

Births Mar 1854
Howells Isaac Leominster 6a 479


Oh, right, hoping gave you that one some time back. I'm not understanding why you have not obtained the certificate to answer your question.

1851 Census
Edward Howell 34,
W B Howell 1 month

Both were born in Shrewsbury

Edward howell was a widower, W B Howell's mother was Elizabeth Burgoyne, who died in 1851, presumably in childbirth,

I have the Baptism record for William Burgoyne Howell, his age on the 1851 census is correct, he was 1 month old his mother died, I think she died in childbirth, that's why Edward Howell was a widower, Edward Howell's 1st wife was Elizabetrh Burgoyne, Edward howell supposedly remarried Sarah Boyds, but have not found any proof of this.

Bingo Janey!

I agree that W B Howell is 12 ..... and here is what looks like his birth registration from freebmd


Births Jun 1839 (>99%)

Howell William Burgoyne Shrewsbury 18 186




--------------------------------------------------------


There are two sets of children born to father Edward Howell and mother Sarah on the I G I on familysearch


One set are SUBMITTED records sent in by a member of the Mormon church, which means no backing documentation ..... these identify the wife as Sarah Boyds


The other set are extracted records taken from the actual parish records, and certainly fit the children as shown on the censuses ....... these identify the wife only as Sarah



I would be wary that the wife is actually called Sarah Boyds until or unless other documentation can be found.



sylvia

Full disclosure helps so much for people who have no idea about the family!

1861

Edward Howell 47 - born: Holy Cross, Shropshire, England
Sarah Howell 37 - born: at sea
Edward Howell 11 - born: Liverpool
James Howell 9 - born: St Mary, Shropshire, England
Isaac Howell 7 - born: Leominster, Herefordshire
Sarah Howell 4 - born: Leominster, Herefordshire
Ann Howell 1 - born: Bibury(?), Shropshire
Town: Shrewsbury

An interesting assortment of children's birth places.
Edward Sr in 1861 was a railway labourer.


1851

Edward Howell 39 - born: Bishop Burton, Shropshire
Sarah Howell 26 - born: Longwood, Shropshire

Ages are a match to 1861, Edward is an Ag Lab. Looks like them ... but it hardly helps ...


Ah, no, this is Edward in 1851.

Edward Howell 34
W B Howell 1 Mo
Civil parish: Shrewsbury St Mary

Both born Shrewsbury, Edward is plate layer on railway, and a widower.

I don't think WB's age is 1 Mo, I think it's 12 (yrs), possibly.


So it's looking like Edward Jr may be Sarah's son but not Edward Sr's ...

and there is this on the 1841:

Name: Sarah Boyd
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Manchester
Hundred: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: London Road
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Richd Boyd 45
Elizth Boyd 45
Sarah Boyd 16
John Royle 25
Susannah Royle 30
Eliza Royle 2

nothing else seems to match.

Regards Linda :)

I'm assuming that you have sarah's maiden name from a birth record?

If not this may help:

Name: Isaac Howells
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Leominster
County: Herefordshire, Hereford and Worcester
Volume: 6a
Page: 479 (click to see others on page)

on the 1861 isaac's birth is given as leominster.

haven't been able to track the family down in 1851 as yet?

Regards Linda :)

not much help but strange in the fact that this one was born at sea as well!!!

Sarah Boyd Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: About 1708 Of, , , At Sea

on 1861 census Sarah is aged 37 b:1824, born at sea
on 1871 census Sarah is aged 45 b:1826, born London
on 1881 census Sarah is aged 54, b:1827, born Manchester,

as you can see, have not found proof of her birth or marriage, the 1st child is a Edward Howell b:1850, Liverpool, most of the children were born in Shropshire.

Hi
Have you got area and some dates please ?
Which Census have you found them on , There are a number of Edward Howell with Sarah as wife, which one is yours ?