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Oh Fabulous!! I do so love to be right!

Well girls David sent me a pm and told me he has the birth cert. and her father was'nt a Rev. but the architect and Elizabeth Waterworth was the mother.

Mel x

This is probably Emma's birth and the right reg is 7 136. If you buy her birth cert. it will tell you her mothers maiden name.
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Emma Payne
Name: Emma Payne
Year of Registration: 1843
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Portsea Island (1837-1900)
County: Hampshire
Volume: 7
Page: 1[35]6 = 136 it is clear on the actual record.

Thankyou David you are so kind,never been called legend before.
No I'm not a professional at anything only the fact that I seem to be terribley nosey and curious and sometimes it pays off as in this instance.
Glad you liked the info I supplied,I love doing the digging.

Take care Mary.

Mary, you are a legend! Are you a professional at this? Thanks very much for that information. Very interesting!

If I can be of any help to your research (not sure how i'd be very good...) please let me know.

Thanks again,

David

Well David you have some famous people in your family.
Augustus frederick livesay married Catherine Waterworth 1838 they had son John Gillett Livesay in 1840 he married Sophia Henrietta bligh born 1842 they married in 1866.
They had George Augustus Bligh Livesay he was a architect also he married Elizabeth Susan Popham.
She firstly married Louis George de Hale Ponsonby and had 3 girls,one was Joan Ponsanby who married a Maurice Bevan born 1886 whose grandad was Henry Bouverie William brand 1st Viscount of Hampden.
If you google Louis George De hale Ponsonby it goes to The Peerage.com which has him plus Joan Ponsonby in.

Maryb

I wondered why if John was a Vicar there doesn't appear to be baptism records for trhe children. Information from the OP suggests that it is another member of the family who said that john was in the church but other than that there is no concrete evidence. A birth certificate of one of the children would be the obvious answer to this question.
However, looking backwards and forwards through the Payne family in Hampshire and Isle of Wight there seem to have been a great many Surveyors. John, his son went into the business and I'm wondering if there is a link there somewhere.
I knew that in looking earlier I had come across a Payne who was a surveyor but discounted it because I was looking for a Vicar.
I have checked again and found this which may or may not be the John and Elizabeth we are looking for. Both born in Hampshire and John is as Surveyor.
But until the OP purchases a birth certificate we may never know.

John Payne
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Male
Where born: Hampshire, England

Civil parish: Portsea Town
Hundred: Portsmouth Borough
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub-registration district: Landport and Southern
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Payne 40
Elizabeth Payne 30

Thanks very much for all your help with this. I think I am starting to find more out about this part of my family.

Thanks again for your help,

David

Another site says the boat RMS Royal Adelaide sank 1850.

Maryb

This site has BMD's for Isle of Wight:

http://www.isle-of-wight-fhs.co.uk/bmd/startbmd.htm

There's a confusing marriage in 1840 of Joseph Stark and Jane Glasspool with an alternate name of Jane Payne. (They usually do that when there's a previous marriage)
Does it make any sense to you?

No i can't find them either.
There is a tree on Ancestry who has also a elizabeth waterworth born @ 1816 in Portsea hampshire who also married a john Payne born @ 1815 in I think brighton sussex.
They had children harriet 1848.
But i can't find 2 marriages for John and Elizabeth.
I thought it a bit strange.

But maybe they have got it wrong.

Maryb

Seems to be Mary. But I still can't locate them in 1841.

RMS Royal Adelaide a steamship wrecked at Tongue Sands off Margate in December 1849.

Is this the wreck??

Sorry late as ever. Had to go and do something and forgot to have a look and see what you others had found!!!!!

There was a RMS Royal Adelaide steamship wrecked at tongue sands Margate in dec 1849 no survivors,150 passengers from ireland.

Maryb

So there is the Waterworth connection as in Ethel Waterworth Payne born to John Payne

Trying this from a different direction
If the children were with their Aunt and Uncle then John Payne must have married a Sister of one of them

Marriages Jun 1838 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frosel William I of Wight 8 337
>>>LIVESAY Augustus Frederick I. of Wight 8 337
MOORMAN Mary Ann I. of Wight 8 337
>>>WATERWORTH Catharine Isle of Wight 8 337


bingo (maybe)

Marriages Sep 1840 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANDERSON Nancy Portsea I. 7 214
BENNEY John Portsea I. 7 214
FITZGERALD James Portsea I 7 214
HARTFIELD Elizabeth Portsea I. 7 214
Morris George Portsea I 7 214
>>>>PAYNE John Portsea I 7 214
>>>>WATERWORTH Elizabeth Portsea I. 7 214
WATSON Ann Portsea I. 7 214

1871 Lydia and John payne lodging in Clapham wandsworth london at the home of a Charles Dunn born @ 1837.
John is a Architect for Surveyor.
1881 John now married to Mary Adelaide (no maiden name )born ireland they had Ethel Waterworth Payne 1875
Frances elizabeth 1877
John Albert 1879
Adelaide Medina 1880
Frederick Norman 1883
Charles Harold Chayter Payne 1884.

On the 1881 census they had 2 servants.

Maryb

EMMA PAYNE Pedigree
Female Family

Event(s):

Death: 18 FEB 1892

Parents:
Father: JOHN PAYNE Family

Marriages:
Spouse: HARRISSON JOHN JULL Family
Marriage: 23 AUG 1864 , Hampshire, England

Messages:
Form submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The form lists the submitter's name and address and may include source information. The address may be outdated. Details vary. To find the form, you must know the batch and sheet number.


Source Information:
Batch Number: 1860093
Sheet: 38
Source Call No.: 1553172

1881 England Census
about Emma Jull
Name: Emma Jull
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Harrison J.
Gender: Female
Where born: Southsea, Hampshire, England

Civil parish: Ramsgate
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address: Elms 2 Elms Park Villas
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Thanet
Sub-registration district: Ramsgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Harrison J. Jull 53
Emma Jull 37
Edward H. Jull 14
Henry A. Jull 12
Katherine Jull 10
Charles Ernest Jull 8
Frances E. Jull 4
Jane Bell 53
Emily J. Lewin 20

Yes, have tried googling the vessel and looking at the times online archive for any newspaper reports of it. I am not 100% sure that this is the name of the ship now as think it would come up in a search.

Now having the information that Lydia and Emma had a brother called John who was born circa. 1849 and that the children were living with relatives by 1851, I assume that their parents died between 1849 and 1851. Having a tighter time frame may help.

I thought there may be church records for the history of rev's, but can't seem to find one.

Thanks again for your help.

David

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about Emma Payne
Name: Emma Payne
Year of Registration: 1864
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Isle of Wight
County: Hampshire, Isle of Wight
Volume: 2b
Page: 842



Harisson John Jull 1864 Isle of Wight Hampshire, Isle of Wight

Emma Payne 1864 Isle of Wight Hampshire, Isle of Wight