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Can sks please help with this one?

I know that my grandfather's sister, Lilian HUNTER, married Sydney Chas BROWN and had a daughter Beryl. I cannot fin their marriage at all on FreeBMD. Not sure if it was a 2nd marriage. Nor have I been able to narrow down her birth (her parents were David Hy & Lydia nee CHAPMAN, m. 1900, I have their details thanx - g'father David Hy HUNTER b. 1904 Wandsworth, also have his cert etc).

They settled in WA and I have found their immigration on RecordSearch:

BROWN Sydney Charles, Lilian [nee HUNTER], Beryl Pauline [Application by British migrants for assisted passage]

Then on findmypast I have found
SC Brown b. 1901
L. Brown b. 1902
BP Brown b. 1946
London to Fremantle in 1954

Can anyone please help with their imigration, ship name etc?

Any leads with marriage would be great thank you!

Have you found the family in 1911?

Think I found your grandfather in Epsom but there are no other Hunter's with him.

Rose

Hi Cherilyn

Date of departure: 4 May 1954
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Fremantle, Australia
Passenger destination: Fremantle, Australia


Ship: ORONTES
Official Number: 146027
Master's name: John Dudley Birch
Steamship Line: Orient
Where bound: Australia
Square feet:
Registered tonnage: 11225.32
Passengers on voyage: 1379

Thank you Mrs M & Jeanette! That's exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks Rose for your reply, too. (I love your screen name by the way!!!) No I haven't found them in 1911. I did buy some using credits for my g'father but it told me b***er all.

Any ideas about Sydney & Lilian's marriage, or Lilian's birth? I really can't see it at all.

:-(

I found two Lilian Hunters births 1902
March qtr Poplar 1c 567
Sept qtr Rothbury Northumberland 10b 541
Not sure if this helps

JA

Cross posting!

Thanks JA! I don't know London/UK very well so not sure which is a better 'fit', though I guess people moved around obviously.

Anyway it is evening here and have to go cook for the family etc, so will return tomorrow sometime.

Thank you all again!

I am in the antipodes too lol

The Austrlain National Archives record of thier assisted passage is held in Perth I think - it may tell you a bit more info -not sure
Title

BROWN Sydney Charles, Lilian [nee HUNTER], Beryl Pauline [Application by British migrants for assisted passage]
Series number
PP4/1 Control symbol
1307 Contents date range
1948 - 1954

Access status
Open Location
Perth Barcode
3242958

It can only be read in the Perth reading room unfortunatley -and I am on the est Coast so cannot help sorry
JA

The family is in Wandsworth in 1901 and when David was born in 1904.

Do you have his birth cert? Would be interesting to compare addresses with 1901.

Rose

Thanks for your replies. I have tried to order a copy of the immigration but my PC has a hissy fit when I get to the order part.

The addresses are is all very interesting because in 1881, David Hy snr (Lilian's father) was a child living with his father David and stepmother Eliza and at 4 Mummerys Buildings, King Street, Margate, Kent. I think he may have been sent after the death of his father to the Thanet Union Workhouse in Minster. He seems to appear there in the 1891 Census at age 13 (along with 565 other inmates), while his stepmother Eliza and half-brother Robert are still at the Mummerys Buildings address!

Then in 1900 on his marriage certificate to Lydia, his address is again shown as Mummerys Buildings. In 1901, David & Lydia were living above a tobacconist at 86 Ferrier St, Wandsworth (no Lilian). On son David Hy jnr's birth cert in 1904, he was born at 41 Dalby Road, Wandsworth, South Fields, London.

So they moved around a bit!

I see the Lilian HUNTER b. 1902 Poplar was in London, so this seems the best fit. Strangely there are two Lilian HUNTERs born Poplar London in the 1911 census, one is 8 and one is 9...?! But no Lydia or David with either of them, so I am a bit reluctant to fork out for credits again, last time it was a complete waste of money!!!

Forgot to mention - according to my aunt, David & Lydia had a son as well but he either died at birth or soon after. And Lydia 'apparently' died in childbirth but I can't find her death at all.

What's the birth reference for David because I don't see it? His dob varies from 1876-1881.

Rose

Cherilyn, are you trying to order to view in the Perth reading room? I am not sure it is digitalised yet. Hope I am not telling you how to suck eggs :)

I guess it might be a question of credits or ordering two certifcates for the birth.

JA

Hi Rose

Ah yes my mysterious grt grandfather.

On his service record, his dob is shown as 3 September 1878 in Margate, Kent, UK. The birth appears to have been unregistered (or occurred prior to marriage).

His mother died prior to the 1881 census (how very inconsiderate!) and his father (also David Hy, b. Belfast c1852) remarried to Eliza Ann GILBERT on 11 Jul 1880 in St George's Church, Ramsgate, Kent, UK. David is listed as a widower on the marriage certificate.

I DO have a theory though - that he was born as Henry David BROWN 7 Sep 1877 to unwed mum, Sarah Elizabeth BROWN, at 181 High St Margate (father not stated). I have that certificate.

This is the baptism:

Name David Henry Brown
Father's Name David Brown
Mother's Name Eliza Brown
Date of Baptism 7th October 1877
Parent's Occupation Private Soldier
Abode 181 High Street Margate
Parish Church Margate St John
Ceremony Performed By G J Everest Curate
Parish Thanet

Now that is interesting - father's surname Brown may be an assumption by the minister, and perhaps Sarah Elizabeth preferred the name 'Eliza'...but all else fits, as David Hy snr is shown on his son's marriage as a soldier in the 15th Hussars!

Then there is a birth 20 Jan 1880 of William Hugh HUNTER, father David HUNTER and mother Sarah Elizabeth nee BROWN (deceased) of 4 Victoria Rd, Margate. (Note that David snr's father was named Hugh and he had a brother named Wm!) I also have that certificate.

Which matches neatly with this death (have to assume she died giving birth to Wm or soon after - maybe this is where the idea about Lydia dying in childbirth comes in to it?)

Deaths Mar 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hunter Sarah Elizabeth 24 Thanet 2a 604

and this marriage:

Marriages Sep 1878 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BROWN Sarah Elizabeth Thanet 2a 1253
Hunter William David Thanet 2a 1253

But his name is wrong...I ordered the certificate anyway, and it shows William David HUNTER (26), carpenter, married Sarah Elizabeth BROWN (22) on July 7th 1878, both of 181 High St Margate. His father is shown as Hugh HUNTER, carpenter. (On David Hy's marriage to Eliza Ann GILBERT his father is Hugh HUNTER, cabinetmaker!) Hers is Henry Marsh BROWN, porter. (By the by, in the 1871 Census, Sarah [15] was living at 181 High St with her parents, Henry [54] 'auctioneers porter' and Susannah [56], and brother John, born Margate.)

Anyway it all fits so neatly, I just can't PROVE it!

Thanks for reading along! :-)

P.S. Another clue is that in the 1891 census, a Wm Hugh HUNTER is also in the Thanet workhouse aged 11, born Margate! (Listed as Hemter but looks like Hunter on the original).

JA
Not sure what's happening, my PC is a bit freakish at times! I have just sent off a request for a quote for copying since I couldn't get thru ecommerce.

:-)

۞ Cherilyn ۞,

Looks like you've researched it thoroughly. It does all seem to fit.

I see William is in Tooting in 1901, near his brother.

Rose

Yes, Rose, I really think there are too many points of connection for it to be coincidence. I did contact a descendant of Hy Marsh BROWN thru this site but he basically didn't believe my story (tho admittedly I hadn't researched it quite so thoroughly at that point and so there was more speculation involved!)

Do you have full access to the 1901 census, by any chance? I would be very interested to find out who he was living with...hadn't got that far. I know I have gone astray from my original post here! Interesting he is a house painter as that was my grandfather's trade for a time here in Australia. Appreicate any help you can offer, thank you!

Hi ۞ Cherilyn ۞,

Who was it you are trying to find in 1901?

Rose

1901 England Census
Name: David H Hunter
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Lydia
Gender: Male
Where born: Margate, Kent, England
Civil parish: Wandsworth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Faith
County/Island: London
Country: England
Occupation: Gas Stoker
Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Wandsworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 112
Household Members: Name Age
David H Hunter 25
Lydia Hunter 23 Strand

Rose

Sorry Rose, I meant William - you mentioned he was in Tooting?

Unfotunately he's in Tooting Workhouse:

1901 England Census
about William Hunter
Name: William Hunter
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Margate, Kent, England

Civil parish: Tooting Graveney
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas Tooting Graveney
County/Island: London
Country: England
Occupation: Domestic House Porter
Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Streatham
ED, institution, or vessel: Tooting Home
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1


Rose