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I know the reason for the"Summer Cloud" name. for a while I thought he had Red Indian blood but in fact he was born on the ship the Summer Cloud.One of his descendantsgave me this info.
Heather

Hi Heather

Lyndon/Lynden was a fairly common boys name in this period (not your Robert or David you understand, but not altogether unusual either). It is not a place name in Victoria.

I think this is his birth, poorly transcribed:

Surname: JAMES
Given Names: Horace Lynda
Event: B
Father: Adolphus L Clow
Mother: Isabella GUEST
Birth Place: CARLTON
Year: 1888
Reg Number: 1401

His father had the most unusual name of Adolphus Summer Cloud JAMES; he was born at sea but I can't find it in the Victorian marine index. He married Isabella in 1883 (reg 1332).

They had a son named Summer Cloud in 1886, also born in Carlton, and son Hartley Tennyson in Bendigo in 1893. So perhaps they were just 'into' unusual names! (Ruby Isabel b. 1890 Sandhurst got off lightly!)

Hello
It certainly gives me a lot to think about. My mistake was looking for George's death in NSW rather than Victoria.
I have another puzzle.George's grandaughter married Horace Lyndon James.I have a lot about the James family but can't find where the Lyndon comes from.Horace's mother was Isabella guest and her mother Mary Lear. Is there a place in Victoria called Lyndon or was it a common name?
Heather

excellent work, mgnv!

so now we know KINC is an abbreviation for Kincardineshire, Heather!

And we can see that the George SHERRIFFS (65) in 1841 was Elizabeth MACKIE nee SHERRIFFS father, as her daughter Mary was in his household in 1841 aged 5 (as his granddaughter) and then back with her parents aged 15 in 1851.

the bio is now back online and thete is a photo of George too http://adbonline.anu.edu.au/biogs/A050197b.htm

Thomas HASTIE and Jane SMITH were Launceston, Tas by 1843. They had 2 children there and were in Buninyong, Victoria by 1848. He was Buninyong's first minister (also Presbyterian) and there is a lot online if you just google his name, including his photo.

this should keep you busy for a while, Heather!

Wow! It's going to take me a while to take all this in. I don't know how you manage it. Thanks a lot.
Heather

The ADB site is up now. Of note:
...became minister of Illawarra and Shoalhaven. Soon afterwards he married Barbara, fourth daughter of William Smith of Montrose, who came from Scotland with her father to join him.
Mrs Mackie's sister Jane was the wife of a neighbouring minister, Rev. Thomas Hastie of Buninyong.
http://adbonline.anu.edu.au/biogs/A050197b.htm

Illawarra and Shoalhaven are both abt 20km from Kiama, one to N and other S.
Learmonth, Burrumbeet and their lakes are abt 30km NW of Ballarat VIC. Miners Rest, Creswick and Clunes are abt 15km from Learmonth, and N of Ballarat. Buninyong is 15km S of Ballarat.
Horsham is 300km NW of Ballarat. South Yarra is suburb of Melbourne, and is 4km to SE.

And Alex's wife Jane Ann Ross

Piece: SCT1851/257 Place: Fettercairn -Kincardineshire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Fettercairn Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 193 Page: 13 Schedule: 55
Address: Stankeye
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
ROSS David Head M M 42 Farmer & Master Blacksmith Kincardineshire - Fettercairn 12 Acres, 1 Labourer, Employs 2 Men
ROSS Hope M Wife M F 39 Angus - Montrose
ROSS David M Son U M 16 Blacksmith Apprentice Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
ROSS Marian Dau U F 14 Farmer's Daughter Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
ROSS William Son - M 10 Scholar Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
ROSS Jane A Dau - F 8 Scholar Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
Page: 193/14 ROSS James Son - M 5 Scholar Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
ROSS George M Son - M 3 Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
ROSS Catherine G Dau - F 7m Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
WATT William Servnt U M 22 Blacksmith Journeyman Kincardineshire - Fetteresso
FALCONER William Servnt U M 16 Farm Labourer Kincardineshire - St Cyrus
CHRISTIESON Jane Servnt U F 21 House Servant Angus - Montrose


Piece: SCT1841/257 Place: Fettercairn -Kincardineshire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Fettercairn Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 5 Page: 3
Address: Stanhigh
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
ROSS David (Jun) M 30 Blacksmith Kincardineshire
MILNE Hope F 25 Wife Outside Census County (1841)
ROSS David M 6 Kincardineshire
ROSS Mary F 5 Kincardineshire
ROSS William M 9m Kincardineshire
GOODMAN Mary F 16 Female Servant Kincardineshire
MURRAY Catherine F 12 Outside Census County (1841)
CROW John M 15 Blacksmith Apprentice Kincardineshire
BIRSE Andrew M 15 Ag Lab Kincardineshire


[I think Stanhigh is now called Stankeye - maybe it was a transcription problem,
it precedes Thainston on the same page, and the preceding page has Bogondollo
and Cuchieburn =Critchie Burn?]

Fettercairn is 20km NNW of Montrose. Go to:
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newdefaulte2.htm
and search for Fettercairn, click "Large Map" to get a 5km x 5km size, then go 1 click North.

This looks like Cherilyn's 1853 Wanderer family
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl


Piece: SCT1851/257 Place: Fettercairn -Kincardineshire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Fettercairn Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 193 Page: 12 Schedule: 52
Address: Nether Thainston
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MACKIE John Head M M 42 Overseer 496 Acres, 120 Hill Kincardineshire - Fettercairn Employs 11 Labourers & 3 Women
MACKIE Elisabeth Wife M F 35 Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
Page: 193/13 MACKIE John Son U M 17 Enum As Scholar Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
MACKIE Mary Dau U F 15 Scholar Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
MACKIE Alexander Son - M 13 Scholar Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
MACKIE Jessie Dau - F 11 Scholar Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
MACKIE David Son - M 6 Scholar Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
MACKIE Elisabeth Dau - F 1 Kincardineshire - Fettercairn
ROBERTSON Mary Servnt U F 25 House Servant Kincardineshire - St Cyrus


Piece: SCT1841/257 Place: Fettercairn -Kincardineshire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Fettercairn Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 5 Page: 6
Address: Thainston
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MACKIE John M 30 Ag Lab Kincardineshire
MACKIE John M 6 Kincardineshire
MACKIE Alexander M 4 Kincardineshire
MACKIE Janet F 1 Kincardineshire
MACKIE / SHERRIFF Elizabeth F 25 Kincardineshire
COUTTS Susan F 15 Female Servant Kincardineshire
DUNCAN Ann F 15 Female Servant Kincardineshire


Piece: SCT1841/257 Place: Fettercairn -Kincardineshire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Fettercairn Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 5 Page: 12
Address: Fasque
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
SHERRIFFS George M 65 Farmer Outside Census County (1841)
SHERRIFFS Frances F 25 Outside Census County (1841)
SHERRIFFS James M 25 Outside Census County (1841)
SHERRIFFS Sarah F 20 Kincardineshire
SHERRIFFS Ann F 20 Kincardineshire
SHERRIFFS Lauderdale M 4 England
SHERRIFFS Alexander M 30 Ag Lab Outside Census County (1841)
Page: 5/13 MACKIE Mary F 5 (Sherriffs Grandchild) Kincardineshire
PRIMROSE Thomas M 30 (Lodger) Outside Census County (1841)
EDWARD Silvester M 16 Ag Lab Kincardineshire
NICOLL Margaret F 30 Female Servant Kincardineshire
COSSAR Jean F 15 Female Servant Kincardineshire
LAING Jean F 15 Female Servant Kincardineshire
MONEY Mary F 50 (Wife Of G Sherriffs) Outside Census County (1841)

[NB Janet and Jessie are Scottish synonyms]

Aha! Got it!

Margaret Lyon WILLIAMSON married George MACKIE (as MCKIE) in 1861 after Barbara's death (reg 3012). They did not have any children.

If you do a deceased search at http://necropolis.net.au/necropolis/ you will find George's burial.

He was buried 13/12/1871 at St Kilda Cemetery, Presbyterian section of course, aged 48.

Interestingly, buried with him is a Margaret L MACKIE, on 7 Jan 1898 aged 76. Had trouble finding her death, but finally found it I think. Her death is reg as Margaret Lyon MCKIE, nee WILLIAMSON. She died in South Yarra aged 76 (reg 4790). No idea who she is!

Now two children of John MACKIE & Elizabeth Gow nee ROSS who died in infancy/childhood are buried with their grandparents, John & Elizabeth MACKIE, along with David who died aged 19 in 1865. John died in April 1883 and Elizabeth in August of the same year. John and his wife Catherine, and Jessie, who all died in 1920s, are also buried in the same cemetery.

:-)

A breakthru!

I was looking for George's parents John & Elizabeth's arrrival in Victoria, with son John.

I think I have them in Apr 1853 aboard Wanderer from UK.

John 44
Elizabeth 38
John 18
Mary 16
Alexander 13
Jessie 11
David 6
Elizabeth infant

Then found a death for Alexander MACKIE, son of John & Elizabeth nee SHERRIFFS, in 1892 aged 53 (reg 6989)..! This must be the Reverend Alexander Mackie mentioned in brother John's marriage notice. It looks like he also married a ROSS girl, Jane Ann, in 1868 (reg 2026).

Jessie did not marry and died at age 80 in 1921, still as MACKIE, dau of John & Elizabeth nee SHERRIFFS, in Armadale Victoria (reg 4048).

Son John died in 1923 at the ripe old age of 89, in Malvern (reg 6478).

Son David died aged only 19 in 1865 (reg 2596), also shows born 'KINC'.

there's also a bio at adb online at http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/ (the site is down at the moment)

and this:

http://www.learmonthdhs.com.au/index.php/heritage-walk/26-site-14-presbyterian-church

good work rootgatherer and mgnv!

This has to be him as daughter Elizabeth was born in Lake Learmonth in 1859. She died aged 1 in 1860 (reg as MCKIE, 8369).

This error helped me find wife Barbara's death, aged only 30, also in 1860 as MCKIE, shown as daughter of Wm SMITH and Jane CROLE (reg 8370). Note the consecutive death reg nos.

this then would look to be George's death?

Surname: MACKIE
Given Names: George
Event: D
Father: John
Mother: Elizabeth SHERIFFS
Age: 48
Birth Place: KINC
Year: 1871
Reg Number: 9684

AND THERE'S MORE! Burrumbeet was mentioned...check this out!

Surname: MACKIE
Given Names: Elizabeth
Event: D
Father: Sherriff Geo
Mother: Mary MONEY
Age: 73
Death Place: BURRUMBEET
Year: 1883
Reg Number: 7519

Surname: MACKIE
Given Names: John
Event: D
Father: David
Mother: Janet SMITH
Age: 75
Death Place: BURRUMBEET
Year: 1883
Reg Number: 4312

That has to be George's parents! Eliz born b.c1810 and John b. c1808. Of course this means she was only abt 14 when he was born, but I guess in the early 1800s that would not be so unusual.

Now, still in Burrumbeet, there was a John MACKIE with wife Catherine Gow ROSS, who had a son named Geo Sherriffs MACKIE in 1880! This John has to be George's brother surely? They married in Victoria in 1874 (both John & Catherine shown as born in Scotland) and had 5 sons and 2 daughters 1875-90. The middle names Ross, Hope, Milne, Smith and Miller also feature so must all be family names from one side or other.

Their marriage notice in the Argus Mon 6 April 1874 iis enlightening:

MACKIE-ROSS -On the 2nd inst, at the resldence of the bride's parents, Toorak, by tho Rev George Tait, John, son of Mr John Mackie, Burrumbeet, and brother of the Rev Alexander Mackie, to Catherine Gaw, youngest daughter of Mr David Ross, Toorak, lato of Fettercairn, Scotland.

http://www.visit.heritage.nsw.gov.au/16_subnav_09_1.cfm
Click on St Stephens, then on read more

http://www.smh.com.au/news/new-south-wales/jamberoo/2005/02/17/1108500196843.html

Babe is a 1995 Australian film that tells the story of a talking pig who wants to be a sheep dog. Babe was filmed in Robertson, NSW.

Jamberoo is abt halfway between Kiama on the coast and Robertson, above the Illawarra Escarpment. The first time I drove that road from Robertson, it was dark and foggy - one of the freakiest drives I've ever done. The main road down the escarpment has curve warning signs advising 10 mph - what a waste - no way I was speeding up to 10mph just to go round a hairpin on a 1 in 6 grade.

At that time there were universities in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen & St Andrews.

Thank you Cherilyn
Yes he was a reverand. I looked at his marriage cert. in 1848 and saw they weren't in Scotland in 1851 but didn't find them on a boat. I had found Jane smith Mackie's birth but not Elizabeth's.I haven't been able to find the death of either George or Barbara, probably because I'm looking in the wrong state.I get confused about Aussie geography.
I found Barbara in Montrose in 1841 but not George. Where would he have to go to study to be a minister?
Heather

Was George a Reverend?

Possible arrival in Victoria in Jan 1849 aboard Lysander as Rev & Mrs MACKIE.

They also had another daughter in NSW named Jane (1855) and another named Elizabeth in Victoria (1859).

Assume you have Caroline's marriage details, chn etc.

Do you know when George or Barbara died? Their death certs may state when and where they married.

Hello Kath and Ann
sorry about the delay in replying. I was away in Edinburgh!
It is Mackie ,that was a spelling mistake. I think that could be the marriage I'll look it up. Thank you Kath.
Heather

Hi Heather,
Could this be their marriage?



GEORGE MACKIE Pedigree
Male Family


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Marriages:
Spouse: BARBARA SMITH Family
Marriage: 23 JUL 1848 Montrose, Angus, Scotland



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Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Regards
Kath

Is it Macie or Mackie?