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Alyson, hopefully the birth cert/s will confirm the correct person, and also give Elizas maiden name,so you can search back further.


Nicky

Thanks everyone for all your advice and help.

I have got a copy of the marriage certificate on 28/03/1932 between Edward Charles Blay (27yrs) Bachelor - Groundsman
and
Ethel Barnes (26yrs) Spinster (fathers name Ernest John Newman) Club Steward
In the presence of James Sink and Charles Edwin Freeman.

I have also ordered copies of both birth certificates for Ethel Barnes and Ethel Newman in 1906 being the same and thinking she was registered twice before and after her parents marriage.

Thanks again
Alyson x

Checking again on the 1911, Eliza was born in Sussex

So possibly one of these???

Births Jun 1885 (>99%)
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Spence Eliza Maud Farnham 2a 109

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Births Dec 1885 (>99%)
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Stevens Eliza Maud Farnham 2a 98



Dee x

Yes Dee, lots of possibilities, thats why I asked if Ethel was a spinster on her marriage cert. for a similar reason...... also I can`t find an Eliza Maud Barnes birth in 1884..... so 2 marriages looks very possible, .looks like Eliza died young as well.....


Deaths Dec 1918 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newman Eliza M 37 E.Preston 2b 777


nicky

Just a thought Nicky about the 2 birth regs, my mother was married previously to my birth, when I was born I have 2 birth regs 1 in my fathers surname and 1 in my mothers ex husbands surname. My parents weren't married at the time.

So maybe Eliza Maud was married to a Mr Barnes previously????

Same year same quarter same vol no. and page no. same as my birth reg was!!!
Dee xx

I have sent a PM to Alyson but no reply.

If I were her I would get these birth certificates as I think they are the same person, registered before and after the parents marriage,

Births Jun 1906
Newman Ethel E. Preston 2b 330

Births Jun 1906
Barnes Ethel E. Preston 2b 330

off to bed now

Yes Nicky, we defo need input from Alyson, my last post tonight on this 1;

1881 England Census
about Ernest J. Newman
Name: Ernest J. Newman
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Charlotte
Gender: Male
Where born: Worthing, Sussex, England

Civil Parish: Broadwater
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street address: 4 Surrey St
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: East Preston
Sub registration district: Worthing
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Newman 37 (Carpenter)
Charlotte Newman 33
Ellen G. Newman 15
Edward H. Newman 13
Edith J. Newman 11
William R. Newman 9
Lillian F. Newman 7
Ernest J. Newman 5
Sydney S. Newman 3
Ethel M. Newman


Alyson, the marriage cert info is really needed to help follow this up, we're all ready to pounce and hopefully get it sorted.


Dee xx

It would help if Alyson would reply to some of our questions,

I think you may have it there Dee, 2 birth regs with the same number but in 2 different surnames, surely thsi has to be the correct one.....marriage cert. details from Alyson would help..!!


Nicky

1901 England Census
about Ernest Newman
Name: Ernest Newman
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Worthing, Sussex, England

Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul Knightsbridge
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub registration district: Belgrave
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 289
Household Members: Name Age
Patrick Ryan 40 Born Roscommon, Ireland
Rose Ryan 45
Charles Muller 29
Ernest Newman 25
William Jones 37 Occupation BUTCHER

What was Ernests occupation on Ethels marriage cert???


Dee x

Looks good???

1891 England Census
about Ernest J Newman
Name: Ernest J Newman
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Worthing, Sussex, England

Civil Parish: Broadwater
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Worthing
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: East Preston
Sub registration district: Worthing
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page



Dee xx

Could Ethel E above have been registered twice for some reason?

If she had been born just before her parents marriage perhaps and registered Barnes, then re-registered after the marriage as Newman?

And 2 more siblings from the same family?.....

Births Sep 1913 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NEWMAN Stanley M Barnes E. Preston 2b 576

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Births Jun 1916 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newman Arthur T Barnes E.Preston 2b 557




The problem is with quite a few Ethel Barnes born c1906 is this the correct one?

Alyson it would be helpful if you could put up ALL the details from the marriage cert. One of the witnesss may have been a sibling, it may help match you up with the correct Ethel Barnes.

Nicky

Ethels fathers birth???

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1876 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newman Ernest John E. Preston 2b 351

HOUSEHOLD BARNES ETHEL GLADYS F 1906 5 Croydon Surrey

1911 census

So this could be the Ethel on the 1911 census. Registered in the same quarter as the marriage.

Births Jun 1906
Newman Ethel E. Preston 2b 330

Births Jun 1906
Barnes Ethel E. Preston 2b 330

Could the above be the same person?

Going with Dees 1911 census in East Preston.....



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Births Jun 1906 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Barnes Ethel E. Preston 2b 330

Nicky
EDIT.... And heres the other 2 siblings from the 1911 census...

Births Mar 1909 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NEWMAN Margaret Olive E. Preston 2b 298

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1910 (99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NEWMAN Ernest C E. Preston 2b 311

This could be grand fathers birth reg. its the only Edward Charles Bray birth that comes up in a 30 year span...


Births Sep 1904 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blay Edward Charles Windsor 2c 447

Windsor is not a million miles away from Cobham where they married.


Nicky

Looking at the 1911 census and using the parents names these are possibly the children of Ernest and John;

HOUSEHOLD NEWMAN ERNEST CLAUDE M 1910 8 MONTHS East Preston Sussex
HOUSEHOLD NEWMAN ETHEL F 1906 5 East Preston Sussex
HOUSEHOLD NEWMAN MARGURITE OLIVE F 1909 2 East Preston Sussex


Eliza was born 1884, Ernest was born 1876.


Dee xx

For ref, the 1916 marriage given by Rose was in Eton, Bucks.

Have you found Ethel on the 1911 census?

on freebmd there is

Newman Ethel M married Ernest G Barnes 1916

If this was Ethel's mum maybe a second marriage ? Ethel taking her step father's name but her father's name on marriage cert?...