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a heald knitter is an operator of a textile machine which produced a jersey type of fabric rather than a woven fabric. So possibly a 'heald drawer' is something similar to a cotton drawer which I think was aomeone who 'drew up' the threads for a loom.

Although Blossom didn't type it in, the 1901 census she posted was for 7 Peel St.

1891 England Census
Civil Parish: Over Darwen
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Darwen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 7 Peel St
Registration district: Blackburn
Sub registration district: Darwen
ED, institution, or vessel: 6

Alfred Baron 46 Salford, Lancashire, England Head M Labourer (General)
Margaret Baron 50 Darowen [Darwen], Lancashire, England Wife M
Dorothy A Baron 23 Darowen [Darwen], Lancashire, England Daughter S Cotton Minder
William T Baron 21 Darowen [Darwen], Lancashire, England Son M Labourer (General)
Joseph Baron 18 Darowen [Darwen], Lancashire, England Son S Cotton Weaver
Alfred Baron 11 Darowen [Darwen], Lancashire, England Son S Cotton Weaver
Mary A Baron 26 Darowen [Darwen], Lancashire, England Daughter-in-law M Cotton Winder
Margaret A Baron 1 Darowen [Darwen], Lancashire, England Granddaughter

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3412; Folio 138; Page 27; GSU roll: 6098522.


One wonders how, in a census for Darwen, Ancestry can be mistranscribe the kids pob. I think the answer is the same as for Elizabeth J Holland's a=2/9 - practice, practice, practice.

One can follow Margt back (although she is entered as Mary H in 1881) by:
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4204; Folio: 85; Page: 33; Line: ; GSU roll: 1342007.
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 4187; Folio: 46; Page: 21; GSU roll: 846942.

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1866
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BARON Alfred WALSH Margaret Ann Darwen, St John Blackburn CE139/1/42


Now, I'm not certain of the next step, but I think it's:
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 3110; Folio: 92; Page: 11; GSU roll: 543080.
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2261; Folio: 347; Page: 6; GSU roll: 87285-87286.
Then

1841 England Census
Civil Parish: Blackburn
Hundred: Blackburn (Lower Division)
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: Heyfolds
Registration district: Blackburn
Sub registration district: Darwen

William Walsh 45 Lancashire, England Grocer
Margaret Walsh 55 Lancashire, England
Thos Walsh 20 Lancashire, England Heald Drawer
Isabella Walsh 15 Lancashire, England Weaver
Mary Walsh 15 Lancashire, England Heald Drawer

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 503; Book: 10; Civil Parish: Blackburn; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 8; Folio: 38; Page: 30; Line: 7; GSU roll: 306892.


Finally, a question - what does a Heald Drawer do?
Do they thread the heddles, or do they draw the wire to make them?

I was checking the records on find my past for Alice Turner 1839 maiden name Holland and on the 1871 cenus where she has her son William Turner c1870 and her Daughter Elizabeth J Holland living with her it states Elizabeth J Holland as age 9 not age 2 like ancestry. I checked the original document and that even says 9 years. In the 1881 Census I think Elizabeth J Holland is living with her Uncle James Holland and his family. How does someone manage to read a number wrong in the early years. I was wondering where Elizabeth J Holland had gone as she wasnt with her mum and brother in the 1881 census, I thought she had died, but it looks like whom ever transcribed the record for 1871 made a 7 year mistake.

I think it is unlikely that they were realated. Both Turner and Nancy are common names of the time, especially in Lancashire. Your Nancy's father was Thomas born in Darwen and the other Nancy's father was James born in Livesey.

Are you happy with the other points you asked for now?

There are 2 Nancy turners born in Darwen, Lancashire (c1875) and (c1876) born on the census later years is at all possible that they could be related. I know my family line is where Nancy Turner (1875) is living with her brother william in the 1901 census but there is another family living in darwen with a Nancy Turner (1876) also in darwen. Any help greatly appreciated)

Thre is a Margaret Alice Duxbury but she was born in 1899 and her mother on the census was not Dorthothy though her father vwas a William
On ancestry it is Margaret Alice Turner who has the parents William & Dorothy Ann. This is more likely to be correct than the genes one.

claire
I think the Marsh / Holland parentage is a red herring

The one I have given you for Peter Marsh & Mary Baron seems more like;ly as he is described as nephew and Dorothy's maiden name was aslo Baron

the only marriage that I found on Lancashirebmd for William Turner was to a Dorothy Ann Baron 1896 at darwen st john and that is the correct marraige as they where married on the 18 Jul 1896.

Thankyou very much for all information, I know that on the 1901 ancestry census it says all the information that you have all given. But on the 1901 census on genes it says margaret alice duxbury not turner and it also says she was born horwich. I know that the information you have given is correct so does that mean that Thomas Marsh parents are a James H Marsh and Elizabeth J Holland are his parents.

if this is Willam & Dorothy's marriage

Marriages Sep 1896
>>>Baron Dorothy Blackburn 8e 812
Cooper William Blackburn 8e 812
Harwood Mary Betsy Blackburn 8e 812
>>>Turner William Blackburn 8e 812

Could this be Thomas' parents

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1873
BARON Mary A
MARSH Peter
Bolton, St George

1851 England Census
about Alice Holland
Name: Alice Holland
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Elizth
Gender: Female
Where born: Over Darwen, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Walton Le Dale
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image

Registration district: Preston
Sub registration district: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 69
Household Members:
Name Age
William Holland 39
Elizth Holland 42
Alice Holland 12
Margt Holland 6
William Holland 4
James Holland 10 Mo

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Original
Record

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Alice's father William is a widower. Perhaps the Elizabeth Holland in the 71 was illegitimate?


1861 England Census
about Alice Holland
Name: Alice Holland
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Darwen, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Over Darwen
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image

Registration district: Blackburn
Sub registration district: Darwen
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 296
Household Members:
Name Age
William Holland 49
Alice Holland 22
Margaret Holland 17
William Holland 14
James Holland 9
Elizabeth Ann Holland 7

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Original
Record

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John and Betty are not William's parents. Alice is actually a lodger living with William Turner and Elizabeth Holland. Elizabeth is listed as daughter.


1871 England Census
about William Turner
Name: William Turner
Age: 6 months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Betty
Gender: Male
Where born: Over Darwen, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Over Darwen
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Over Darwen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image
Registration district: Blackburn
Sub registration district: Darwen
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 140
Household Members:
Name Age
John Hunt 63
Betty Hunt 52
Sarah Hunt 18
John J Hunt 13
Alice Turner 32
Elizabeth J Holland 2
William Turner 6 months

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Original
Record

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1881 England Census
about William Turner
Name: William Turner
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Alice
Gender: Male
Where born: Darwen, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Over Darwen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 10 Riley St
Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Blackburn
Sub registration district: Darwen
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
James Turner 51
Alice Turner 44
William Turner 10
Nansy Turner 6


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Original
Record

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1891 England Census
about William Turner
Name: William Turner
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Alice
Gender: Male
Where born: Darwen, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Over Darwen
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Darwen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Blackburn
Sub registration district: Darwen
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Alice Turner 56
William Turner 20
Nancy Turner 16

I can see a Mary Duxbury born in Horwich, but that's not the same household.

Births Mar 1897 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Turner Margaret Alice Blackburn 8e 472

Nancy and Margaret Alice are both his daughters and are both born in Darwen.

for ref:


1901 England Census
about William Turner
Name: William Turner
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Dorothy Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Darwen, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Darwen
Ecclesiastical parish: Over Darwen Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Blackburn
Sub registration district: Darwen
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 144
Household Members:
Name Age
William Turner 30
Dorothy Ann Turner 33
Margaret Alice Turner 4
Nancy Turner 2
Nancy Turner 26
Thomas Henry Marsh 13

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Original
Record

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Births Jun 1898 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Turner Nancy Blackburn 8e 471