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Bob ...you have lost me now ...I dont have any marriages in 1904 or 1901 ......

I havent recieved an e-mail or pm from you as I always answer them ..........straight away ..UNLESS they are about my family tree then I check the details on this site and my hard copys at home first ...

Sorry

Kemp.
Most the info you have had in the past 12 hrs is what I was trying to give you, but because you took so long to answer I gave up. The thread that appeared this afternoon regarding a 1904 marriage, was similar to yours, I replied to you and the other one, NO reply was received from either, I sent an email to YOU and the other person requesting further info, but the other person replied yesterday after nearly 3 months, then you go on to say that I am being nasty to my friend, if you read the answer, all it says is ( if you had given this info earlier you could have had the answer 3 Months ago). Threads are held in the bank on the left of the screen, they are there till you delete your bit, which is why I have replied to yours & hers.
I, am NOT a nasty person nor do I wish to upset anyone, if you have difficulties then so be it, I was only trying to help you. I have given my summary of your thread and to be quite honest do not want to enter into any other threads that you may have in the future, we are here to help each other as far as Ime concerned.

No Doubt I will get plenty of Flack, but to be honest I dont think that my message was off hand, after all Ive replied to messages sent in 2004, and they havnt been annoyed, If you look at the tread I replied to there were NO NAMES, only a marriage in 1904, which turned out to be 1901.

Enough said, etc,.

Bob Peters.

Just for the record its not Kate Pogson who changes her name, she seems to be with two differant men.

Bob.

1 marriage of Kate Jane to william Henry Williams ....

Without this I cant go back down his tree


2 where did Thomas gorden Wolstencroft go .........is just coz I,m nosey!!!!


3 where is kates death registration

without this I cant find where is is buried ......again just nosey

Sylvia ...thats the family ......

Catherine Jones married william G Pogson
had Edith then Kate Jane
Kate jane had catherine charlotte williams

She was registered kate Jane Pogson at birth yes
d .Williams
Edith williams

May be it was a common-law marriage ........ but when she went to register your mother she was asked her maiden name and if she had had any previous name.



Don't forget, the father did not have to attend at the registrar's, and no-one asked for proof of marriage.



sylvia

so she was registered as Kate Jane

Births Jun 1884 (>99%)

Pogson Kate Jane St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 442



although of course, this doesn't rule out the possibility that she was baptised Katherine, or that she herself later decided that she preferred Katherine!





Anyone can change their name to whatever they want, and you don't have to go through any legal process.






sylvia

Bear with me, I'm trying to understand your family, and what you already know.

Is this them in 1901??

1901 Census

Name: Catherine Pogson
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Malleoyed, Montgomeryshire, Wales

Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square
Ecclesiastical parish: St Gabriel Warwick Square
County/Island: London

Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub registration district: Belgrave

Catherine Pogson 50 Lodging House Keeper
Edith Pogson 20 b.ca 1881, Pimlico, London, Assistant
Kate Pogson 19 b.ca 1882, Pimlico, London, Assistant
Emma Coll 32 Servant
Charles Coll 1 2 months
Mary McClement 6
Annie McClement 41


Address:- 30 Gloucester Street, Blegravia, St George's Hanover Square


and in 1891

Name: Catherine Pogson
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Montgomeryshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
County/Island: Surrey

Registration district: Croydon
Sub registration district: Croydon

Evan J Evans 41 Tobacconist
Jane Evans 41
Catherine Pogson 46 Married, Lodging House Keeper
Kate J Pogson 7 b.ca 1884, Pomlico, London, Scholar
Ernest E Lawe 18


Address:- 5 North End, Croydon




sylvia

ok

do you have Kate Jane's birth certificate, or even her birth registration?


What is her name on there?


sylvia

Ok ...let me try to clean this up some

My mum J M H ....born J M Busy
Her mother Katherine Charlotte Williams
her mothers maiden name Pogson

Her name kate jane williams on Katherines Birth certificate maiden name Pogson formerly Wolstencroft

Katherine then married Stanley Busby and ADDED Wolstencroft to her marriage certificate

Kate Jane born 1882 married Thomas Gorden Wolstencroft in Fed 1909 her marriage to him said she was Kate Jane pogson

1911 census SHOWS kate with her sister Edith Jones Pogson at 60 gloucester Road London (the family home )
Spelling changed for Kate jane wolstencroft to
Katherine J wolstancroft

ALL this is only after getting certificates and getting confirmation from cross matching names addresses ect
Kate mum also Catherine Pogson MMN JONES died at 60 gloucester Road 1912 with Edith at her side

WHAT I cant find are
1 marriage of Kate jane to ....Mr WILLIAMS
2 Where did Thomas go in 1911....no death reg or place of adode ...YET

Thats all

But I also cant find Kate Janes DEATH reg

Edoth uses JONES coz she was born before her parents were married

Kemp

if you are getting all those names from the various censuses, it may be that it isn't KATE who is calling herself by all these different names

.................. but that either the census takers (or whoever filled in the census) didn't hear the name properly, didn't listen properly didn't know how to spell the name(s) etc, and/or the modern day transcriber(s) have mistranscribed what was on the original census!


for example WolstOncroft vs WolstAncroft could very simply be a mis-transcription. Similarly JAne and JOneS


You should ALWAYS look at the census image to check what is on there ................... which means paying big amounts for the 1911 if what I am reading is true.



I can give you one example from my family.

I couldn't find my grandfather on the 1891 census. His name was Schofield, simple eh? After weeks and weeks of searching (and learning lots about how to find an elusive relative), I found the family ............. as Silufield. When I checked the image, it very clearly was Schofield to anyone who knew the name.


Unfortunately, the modern day transcribers have to write what they SEE not what they think it should be.



sylvia

READ the post above ........................

Yes these are my family ........

BUT bob ................why was she calling herself many names

Kate Jane Pogson
kate jane wolstencroft
kate jane wolstancroft
katherine Jones wolstancroft
K J williams

As we now know she didnt seem to care or ......know who she was

she was widowed by 1911 !!!!????? or just hidding from someone !!! Her father in law was a vicar!

There are These,
Katharine F Williams mmn Pogson bn 1912 Chelsea, 1a 710
Evelyn C " " " " " " 1913 St Geo Hanover Sq 1a 732
Diana M " " " " " " 1922 " " "" " " 1a 618

Doesnt seem to be a marriage though.

Bob Peters

Thanks everyone ....you have been helpful....again I didnt use my brain ......and YES she is there on the 1911 census under WOLSTANCROFT ......just took some advice and a long shot and found her ...........She says she is a widow so I guess Good Old Thomas died .....within a year of marrying her ..........LOL ...

BUT I must pass a tip on to you all .....I found her by looking for her sister ....who never married and still in 1911 called Pogson ...there was kate with her

In 1911 Kate was being called Katherine !!!!

I think I like this lady!!
Thanks again people for your time and help ...

Hi Kemp,
Have come late to your thread....found this birth any good? You are probably seen it..
Births Jun 1884

Pogson Kate Jane St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 442



Happy Christmas

Regards Vera

hi Kemp,

No suggestions for Thomas .......

but if the child born in 1912 is William's, she might well be listed under Williams?

If she is the Kate Jane born in Pimlico to Catherine Pogson in the 1901 census (b approx 1882), then she may be the Kate b approx 1884 in "Pomlico" in the 1891 census?

I can't find a Kate Williams born in Pimlico on the London 1911, but that census has a Kate Jane Williams living in Fulham b approx 1884 in London. One to rule out?

I tried about 10 different versions of Wolstencroft with no forename but still no sign of your Thomas

Claire ...what I did do was just put in the surnames and it gave me all of them and that then told me his brothers and sisters and parents are still at Larkhill Road.........but no sign of Thomas

Many many Thanks for your kind help again .....

Bob ......I have 4 children one is autistic ......aged 22 one is sick with the sickness bug and the other two are wrapping presents to help me .......
I,m very sorry not to be here at 1.30 am but as you MIGHT have guessed I managed to get my 22 year old into bed and am waiting for the other to dash to the bathroom!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry to keep you up !!!!!

Bob ...my family are ALL in LONDON and I,ve found many of them on the bit that has been released to the public at present .....

Questions ......what do you feel you need to know that hasnt been covered ...??????????????????
Kate POGSON ...maiden name

Married Thomas Wolstencroft 1909
Father of her first child William Henry Williams


WHAT NAME WOULD SHE BE UNDER IF SHE DIDNT DIVORCE THOMAS !!!!!????????

So I can look for her !!!! MYSELF

NONE of my family name appear, yet there should have been at least 8 of them in London on 1911.
Its seems, I suspect that the family name MAY have been Aliased as French,
Therefore they appear double barrelled as XXXXXX FRENCH , but not as the actual name,

food for thought......?
Bob