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is there an Arthur CHAPPELL and wife Ellen?
Ellen c1839 with children Charles and Maria?
Would be in Kent or Middlesex/London area
Charles c 1867 Maria c 1870

I can't find any of these four!
have tried allsorts of combinations of names!

have you found any other?? did Arthur perhaps use another name sometimes??

Christine

What's the source of this info?

Is this the marriage?

Marriages Jun 1864
Chappell Arthur Farnbro 2a 141
Doggett Ellen Farnbro 2a 141

Rose

This is the only Arthur/Ellen combo:

1871 England Census
about Arthur Chappell
Name: Arthur Chappell
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square
Ecclesiastical parish: St Gabriel
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub registration district: Belgrave
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Household schedule number: 318
Household Members: Name Age
Agnes E Chappell 5
Arthur Chappell 28
Constance Chappell 11 months
Edith B Chappell 2
Ellen Chappell 26
Caroline Doggett 26
Frederick H Doggett 25
Susannah Lintott 21
Sarah C Parfitt 21

Rose

thank you for looking for me.It was Maria that I was looking for but she may well be under a different surname.
I am actually looking for siblings Charles and Maria both born Woolwich but I dont know what surname they would be under. I dont think there is that facility to search the census with just forenames.
Back to the drawing board....
Thank you

thank you Rose, that would be the one I was looking for as Ellens maiden name was Doggett, but its not finding Charles and Maria so thats that theory gone

where have you got Charles & Maria's birthdates from??
were they perhaps born after 1871??

Christine

You can search by first name only on Ancestry.

What do you know about Charles and Maria in later years? I presume you have them in a census or married somewhere? Tell us what you know for sure so we can work backwards.

Rose

rather long story .
Maria BUTLER and Charles BUTLER are in the Metropolitan district school in 1881 census both each others nearest living relation no mention of parents. On 1871 census first glance gives Maria and Chalres with parents but this isnt my Maria as this one appears later on a census with ehr parents under her married name of SHURETY.
My Maria Butler married William Pearson in 1890 in Kent and she puts her fathers name as William Butler also the same as the one who married Shurety.
Maria place of birth is Woolwich, I have checked some parish records for her but cant find a birth registered or baptism.
My theory this morning was that an Ellen Doggett married Arthur Chappel and had Chalres and Maria but Arthur died and she remarried a William Butler!!
sadly thats not the case.

have you seen this one??

1871 - Charles Butler with father, William & sister, Maria - and the birthdates coinincide!

Name: Charles Butler
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Marylebone
Sub registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 294
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Butler 4
Eliza Butler 10
George Butler 8
John Butler 12
Maria Butler 46
Maria Butler 1
William Butler 45

Christine

on Maria's marriage cert - does it give William Butler's occupation? And does it say deceased?

Christine

I think that is the one where later the daughter Maria is then Maria Shurety. I think the mother is from lands end

Name: Charles Butler
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Maria
Gender: Male
Where born: Hampstead, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Hampstead
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: Golden Yard
Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Hampstead
Sub registration district: Hampstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 4 (Ward I)
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Butler 14
Eliza Butler 20
George Butler 17
John Butler 22
Maria Butler 12
Maria Butler 52
Mary A. Butler Younger Than 1
William Butler 53

OK - so this you have ruled out because the birthplace is not what you think it should be??

Christine

nothing on marriage certificate to say he is deceased but his occupation is just labourer.

I was thinking that maybe their mother died and thats why they were put into the school. They were admitted 25 jan 1878

Name: Charles Butler
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Hampstead St John
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Hampstead
Sub registration district: Hampstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 294
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Butler 4
Eliza Butler 10
George Butler 8
John Butler 12
Maria Butler 1
Martha Butler 45
William Butler 45

here's another in 1871 - father William, sister Maria

weird that the kids have the same names! Just the mother's name is different!

Christine

that one is ruled out because thats the same one that has Maria as Mrs Shurety.

I've looked at the original image -
think this is the same family - been entered twice!!

Christine

I dont actually have a mothers name yet as I cant find any baptism or birth.
I was trying to work out if there could have been a death for their father and mother remarried to a william Butler. Which is where I came up with the theory of Ellen married previously to Arthur Chappell.
If you see what I mean. I think I have treid all angles on this one and got nowhere.

think I'm going to take a break!

I'll check in later to see if anyone else has managed to come up with alternatives

Good luck - Christine

Have you checked this one out, her mother is Elizabeth,daughter in law, a widow, but no Charles with them.

1871 England Census
about Maria Butler
Name: Maria Butler
Age: 4 months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Granddaughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: St George in The East, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St George in The East
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: St George In The East
Sub registration district: St Paul
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 70
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Butler 20
Emma Butler 11
Maria Butler 4 months
Agnes Butter 17
Alfred Butter 13
Eliza Butter 47
Hannah Butter 21
John Butter 50
John Butter 25
Reuben Butter 19

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 538; Folio: 62; Page: 13;

Do you know that Charles and Maria were definitely brother and sister?

Christine