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They could be brothers ,will be interesting to see the birth cert ,as i said there was a death for a Fen Read ,will let you know. Regards Amanda

I was wondering if Fenn was the son of Richard and Susanna Fenn. He could have been named Richard Fenn Read and known as Fenn.

Just a thought.

Norfolk family history site looks like it would be good.

That would make, (family 1 ) Robert and (family 2) Fane, brothers.
Val

Thank you all for your help i appreciate it very much ,will now send for Jeremiah and mary's birth certs .then i may be able to go back further ,this is my brother-in-laws side of the family and we had to get his fathers birth cert because he never even knew his grandparents names ! so every thing from Alfred Charles Read has been exciting for him and his brothers and sisters Thank you all Amanda

http://www.norfolkfhs.org.uk/indexes/parish/ptranscripts.asp?parishfield=Blofield&go=Search

You might like to have a look at the Norfolk family history site. says it costs £10 for ann. membership but they will do free search for members unable to go visit

Hi
I have been looking at these families and had to write it down to sort it out. So here goes.


FAMILY 1
1841 CENSUS

Robert Read 38
Marianh Read 38
William Read 14
Sarah Read 12
Robert Read 10
Susan Read 8
Richard Read 6
Elizabeth Read 4
Harraitt Read 2

FAMILY 1
1851 CENSUS

Robert READ
Birth:
Christening: 27 APR 1802 South Walsham St Lawrence, , Norfolk, England
Marriage: 30 APR 1822 Upton, Norfolk, England
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father: Richard READ
Mother: Susanna FENN

Marriages:
Spouse: Mary SUTTON
Birth: 09 JAN 1803 Upton, Norfolk, England
Christening: 20 FEB 1803 Upton, Norfolk, England

Marriage: 30 APR 1822 Upton, Norfolk, England
---------------------------------------------------------
Children
1. William READ
Male

Birth:
Christening: 04 MAY 1827 South Walsham St Mary'S, , Norfolk, England
Death:
Burial:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
2. Sarah Ann READ
Female

Birth:
Christening: 13 JAN 1829 South Walsham St Mary'S, , Norfolk, England
Death:
Burial: 04 MAY 1828 South Walsham St Mary'S, , Norfolk, England ----------------------------------------------------------------
3. Robert READ
Male

Birth:
Christening: 23 FEB 1831 South Walsham St Mary'S, , Norfolk, England
Death:
Burial:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
4. Susanna READ
Female

Birth:
Christening: 25 JAN 1833 South Walsham St Mary'S, , Norfolk, England
Death:
Burial:
-----------------------------------------------------------------5. Richard READ
Male

Birth:
Christening: 03 APR 1835 South Walsham St Mary'S, , Norfolk, England
Death:
Burial:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
6. Elizabeth READ
Female

Birth: 05 FEB 1838 South Walsham St Lawrence, , Norfolk, England
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
7. Harriet READ
Female
Birth: ****Births Dec 1840 Blofield 13 22 ****

Christening: 20 NOV 1840 South Walsham St Mary'S, , Norfolk, England
-----------------------------------------------------------------
8. Edward READ
Male

Birth:
Christening: 24 AUG 1844 South Walsham St Lawrence, , Norfolk, England
Death:
Burial:
====================================



FAMILY 2
1841 CENSUS

Vann Read 45 (looks like Fenn on image)
Mary Read 45
Sarah Anne Read 11
Elizabeth Read 9
Richard Read 6
Edward Read 4
Mary Read 2

FAMILY 2
1851 CENSUS

Fane READ
born 1793 South Walsham, Norfolk

Mary READ
abt 1793 Burlingham, Norfolk

Richard READ Son
abt 1835 Upton

Edward READ Son
abt 1837 Upton

Mary READ Daughter
abt 1839 Upton
****Births Jun 1839 Blofield 13 23****


Buying Mary's birth certificate would give you the parents names.

Buying Jeremiah's birth certificate would give you his parents as in the 1861 census Elizabeth Read is recorded as unmarried so Jeremiah could be a brother's son.

ValT

possible index

Births Jun qtr 1839

Read Mary District Blofield volume 13 page 23



http://freebmd.rootsweb.com you could search indexes on here to see if you think it is the most likely

A birth cert for Mary would give mothers maiden name

And 1841


Name: Mary Read
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Gender: Female
Where born: Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Upton
Hundred: Walsham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Name: Vann Read
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Gender: Male
Where born: Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Upton
Hundred: Walsham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England



Household Members: Name Age
Vann Read 45
Mary Read 45
Sarah Anne Read 11
Elizabeth Read 9
Richard Read 6
Edward Read 4
Mary Read 2

1851
Name: Mary Read
Age: 58
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1793
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Fane
Gender: Female
Where born: Burlingham, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Upton
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
cook


Household Members: Name Age
Edward Read 14
Fane Read 58
Mary Read 58
Mary Read 12
Richard Read 16

I think I understand now - I have not got access to the censuses so can only work on the info you have given, sorry.

If I have got this right
Jeremiah
Births Sep 1856
Read Jeremiah High Blofield 4b 161
this certificate would give Jeremiah's father - ?? Read

Which presumably then helped you identify the family in 1841 - ?? Read being probably (very inconsiderately!!) born before civil registration began

so 1861
Name: Jeremiah Read
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Upton, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Upton
Ecclesiastical parish: Norwich
County/Island: Norfolk


Name: Elizebeth Read
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Jane
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Upton, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Upton
Ecclesiastical parish: Norwich


Name: Mary Read
Age: 65
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Jane
Gender: Female
Where born: Blofield, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Upton
Ecclesiastical parish: Norwich


Household Members: Name Age
Ann E Read 7
Elizebeth Read 27
Jane Read 68
Jeremiah Read 4
Mary Read 65
Robert James Read 1

1881
Name: Jeremiah Read
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Upton, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Mautby
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street address: Cottages Near Hall
Occupation: Ag Lab

Household Members: Name Age
Jeremiah Read 24
John Read
Louisa Read 26

1891 for ref Alfred is son not husband! is this right
Name: Jeremiah Read
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Upton, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Rackheath
County/Island: Norfolk
Name: Louisa Read
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Jeremiah
Gender: Female
Where born: Upton, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Rackheath
County/Island: Norfolk
Name: Alfred Read
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Jeremiah
Mother's Name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Bradwell, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Rackheath
County/Island: Norfolk
Household Members: Name Age
Ada Read 7
Alfred Read 9
Basil S Read 3
Emma Read 5
Jeremiah Read 35
John Read 10
Louisa Read 36

Let me explain i have 1891 census Alfred Charles Read with wife louisa ,their son Jeremah Read born 1857 Upton norfolk ,the 1861 census shows Jeremiah with his mother Elizabeth and grandparents Mary Read and Jane Read down as the head and male, i hope this all makes sense .

Ann, I'am not sure about Robert , Fen ,Fane or Vane is the name i was looking for . Amanda

Just looked on your other thread about Fenn and wife Mary you said their eldest child was Sarah Ann - if Robert and mary Sutton are the ones you want the Sarah Ann born to them died before she was born!

Sarah Ann READ
Christening: 13 JAN 1829 South Walsham St Mary'S, , Norfolk, England

Death:
Burial: 04 MAY 1828 South Walsham St Mary'S, , Norfolk, England

Parents:
Father: Robert READ Mother: Mary SUTTON

If Edward was aged 4 in 1941 census he would have been born before civil registration started as the census was taken in Jun 1841 Ed ward must have been born befor Sept 1837 which is when registration started so you need Mary's birth.

Are you sure the Robert married to Mary Sutton is the 'Fen' you are looking for as you originally said Fen was born in 1793. I don't think the records for South Walsham churches complete on the igi so perhaps there is someone who would look up the actual register for you for c 1793

Thank you Margaret I'll have to find the birth of one of the children born after 1837 ,on the 1841 census there was Edward age 4 and mary age 2 ,so will have to look for their births .

Amanda you cant send for a birth cert because Robert was born before 1837 when registration began.

You have to look at parish records which can be ordered at your LDS centre for a small charge

Thank you Linda, Ann and Blossom ,It looks as if Mary was living with son Robert in 1881 ,if i can find his birth then i'll send for birth cert then maybe i'll find his father's true name many thanks . Amanda