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I am going to ask her on Wednesday if she has Martha death cert or the twins birth cert. I believe Hugh was registered by the Mills family not sure about Leonard.

I also have thought that if James/ Amos didn't register her death the chances are he was either dead or long gone.

I will let you know after we have met up as to what she thinks. I'm in favour of he died in 1883 and Martha was a little loose with her favours lol.

The other interesting bit about the Amos death is that there was no other Amos Armstrong ( that I can see )born in 1850. or in 1849/1851 he is the only one anywhere in the country.

Will they ever know who the father of the twins was ??? I am glad my gtgran came from the Staniforth marriage lol

But if she died and the info is not given by Amos/James is it then likely he has died.
I would be interested to know the outcome.
Has the rel of Leonards not got that one

Hi Janice
I am still trying to work out if Amos / James could have died in 1883 there was certainly a Staniforth child born out of wedlock so Martha wasn't exactly upstanding as they say.

The Carnall and Staniforths are intermingled all the way thro and Leonard was adopted by the a cousin of his sisters husband.
I think there is a good need to get the twins birth cert. and hope that she didn't lie
Thankyou for your help

Think i have found a connection Staniforth/C arnall in 1881 i don't know but this links with the surname you gave for Martha on the message.

Name: Stephen Staniforth
Age: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Father
Gender: Male
Where born: Hackenthorpe, Derbyshire, England

Civil Parish: Beighton
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street address: Hackenthorpe
Condition as to marriage: Widow

Name: Charles Staniforth
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann
Father's Name: Stephen
Gender: Male
Where born: Hackenthorpe, Derbyshire, England

Civil Parish: Beighton
County/Island: Derbyshire


Name: Ann Staniforth
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles
Gender: Female
Where born: Anston, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish: Beighton
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street address: Hackenthorpe


Name: William Carnall
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Ratcliffe, Nottinghamshire, England

Civil Parish: Beighton
County/Island: Derbyshire
Household Members: Name Age
William Carnall 29
Ann Staniforth 27
Charles Staniforth 29
Edith Staniforth 8
Edwin Staniforth 1
Eliza Staniforth 4
Norah Staniforth 6
Samuel Staniforth 3
Stephen Staniforth 66
wonder if the connection goes back to this marriage
Marriages Dec 1851 if John and Mary married

Bartholomew Martha Sheffield 22 705
Carnall John Sheffield 22 705
Hobson Mary Ann Sheffield 22 705
Otley Henry Sheffield 22 705
Staniforth Mary Sheffield 22 705
Wilman James Sheffield 22 705

Not sure where Somerset came in but this looks like her in 1871
Name: Hannah A Carnall
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Melledton, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Beighton
Town: Hackenthorpe

Name: Charles Carnall
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Hannah A
Gender: Male
Where born: Beighton, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Beighton
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Carnall 23
Hannah A Carnall 53
Harriet Carnall 9
Leonard Carnall 11
Thomas Hatton 25 --Relation: Boarder

so wonder if Leonard Armstrong was named after this one.
Could Charles/Fanny have registered the birth as mother had died 3 weeks after the birth, and perhaps a Mills family registered Hugh

1901
Name: Fanny Carnall
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles
Gender: Female
Where born: Masbrough, Yorkshire, England

Name: Charles Carnall
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Fanny
Mother's Name: Hannah A
Gender: Male
Where born: Harkenthorpe, Derbyshire, England


Name: Leonard C Armstrong
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Adopted Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Huckenthorpe, Derbyshire, England

Name: Hannah A Elliott
Age: 85
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Mother
Gender: Female
Where born: Middleton, Somerset, England

Civil Parish: Beighton
Ecclesiastical parish: Beighton St Mary
so is this a marriage for Hannah


Marriages Jun 1876 (>99%)
CARNALL Hannah Agnes Sheffield 9c 536
Elliott Joseph Sheffield 9c 536

FOSTER Elizabeth Sheffield 9c 536
Greaves Matthew Sheffield 9c 536

might need to have an open mind about him being the father my mums brother was born after her father had died (but still had his surname) and before her mother married again. It might be £7 well spent in getting one of the twins birth certs or the death cert as it seems to fit --right age and registration area same as wifes death /twins birth (if only to rule out that its the wrong one!!)as there never seems to be another Amos through the census years, see what your half cousin thinks

Jan the death index you gave was for 1883 but the twins werent born until 1886 no i dont have Martha 's death but me dad and me gt aunts told that me gggran took all the kids on board

so the death index i posted isnt the one for Amos,only seems to be theone Amos through the census years ,so i think it is him.
Have you got wifes death cert. does it say who the informant was?

yes thanks Claire I know he is there Dad I just want to know where he went when their mam died ... he left 8kids behind

PS Janice the other person looking is from Len !!!

Janice there is a death for Hugh a yr later
as Hugh Mills Armstrong

Uzzi see the post at 18.19

sorry Claire which death ....so excited that others are looking

Janice you have then right but where is the father ???

What about the death that Janice found?

Janice yes you are right on that as far as I know

but where did their father go ?

Hugh Mills Armstrong is one of the twins he died a yr later
so is Leonard who was adopted by Charles and Fanny Carnall band carried he name Carnall Armstrong

death index
so have i got the right children as you said they were adopted in 1891
Name: Hugh Mills Armstrong
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Year of Registration: 1886
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 0
District: Rotherham
County: Derbyshire, South Yorkshire, Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9c
Page: 322