Find Ancestors

John Scrivens & Samuel Scrivens, I am trying to find out if there is a connection, it seems like it but I can't quite get there so I am looking for the two census hoping they will tell me something.
John Scrivens born c1819 Lambeth and Samuel Scrivens B1816 Clerkenwell Middlesex. Samuel A married 1849 to Ann Moorehead Hodson. Cannot find marriage for John and wife Margaret. I have 1861 & 1871 Census for John and he comes under James and John. On sons wedding certificate he is down as John.
Any help on this would be much appreciated.
Thankyou,
Julia

1851 England Census
about James Scrivens
Name: James Scrivens
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Lambeth
County/Island: Surrey
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Lambeth Church Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 6
Household Members: Name Age
Letitia Harwood 8 Mo
James Scrivens 30
Margaret Scrivens 25
Margaret Scrivens 4

Rose

Fantastic, it doesn't tie up with Samuel but with a daughter Margaret it sounds just what I am looking for. I have the 1861 census for James and Margaret and there daughter wasn't on it and I needed it to tie up her with this family. I have the marriage certificate of their daughter Elizabeth with a Margaret Scrivens who was a witness to the wedding and could only do so if Samuel who has a daughter Margaret could be proven as a brother. The following census 1871 was for John Scrivens but is the same family, trouble on certificate his name is down as John. Maybe I should look for a marriage for James and Margaret.
Is it possible to find out where the daughter was in 1861 please that might help once again
Thank you so much
Julia

1851 Census

Name: Samuel Scrivens
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Pentonville, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Stockwell St Michael
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Kennington First
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 8
Household Members: Name Age
Edith Carter 34 Servant
Elizabeth Eldridge 74 Servant
Miriam Fox 39 Servant
Ann Hoy 60 Servant
Josiah Morsman 72 Brother, Retired Lenish (???) & Iron Founder
Thomas Morsman 74 Head, Widower, Retired Lensih (??Senish??) & Iron Founder
Ann Scrivens 35
Maria Scrivens 1
Samuel Scrivens 35 Colonial Agent
Margaret Sharp 39 Servant
Sarah Timmis 25 Servant
Samuel Wayhorn 48 Servant

Address:- Clapham Road



sylvia

???? Samuel in 1841

1841 Census

Name: Samuel Scrivens
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Male

Civil Parish: Battersea
Hundred: Brixton (Western Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub registration district: Battersea
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Scrivens 25 Independent Means
William Scrivens 20

Address:- N side of Clapham Common


sylvia

????????

from the International Genealogical Index on www.familysearch.org

SAMUEL SCRIVENS Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth: 24 FEB 1816

Christening: 24 MAR 1816 Pentonville, London, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: GEORGE SCRIVENS Family
Mother: FRANCES ELIZABETH

---
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

--
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C040941 1810 - 1843 0579290 Film 6909351 Film

C040941 1844 - 1864 0579291 Film 6909351 Film



sylvia

?????????

from IGI

JAMES SCRIVENS Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 29 AUG 1819 Saint Mary, Lambeth, Surrey, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM SCRIVENS Family
Mother: MARY

--
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

--
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

P006281 1800 - 1822 0254603-0254607 Film 0821156 Film

P006281 1800 - 1822 0254603-0254607 Film 0821157 Film




sylvia

Looked for father George Scrivens, mother Frances, children born 1820 +/- 20 years

This fits in with that 1841 census!



WILLIAM HENRY SCRIVENS Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth: 04 OCT 1821

Christening: 28 OCT 1821 Holy Trinity, Clapham, Surrey, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: GEORGE SCRIVENS Family
Mother: FRANCES ELIZABETH JONES

--
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

---
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C058451 1792 - 1819 0307716 Film 6906161 Film

C058451 1820 - 1833 0307717 Film NONE

C058451 1834 - 1844 0307718 Film NONE

C058451 1845 - 1854 0307719 Film NONE


Plus



GEORGE SCRIVENS Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 01 FEB 1811 St Ann Blackfriars, London, London, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: GEORGE SCRIVENS Family
Mother: FRANCES ELIZABETH

--
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

---
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

P022091 1717 - 1861 0374416, 0374417 Film 6903713 Film

P022091 1717 - 1861 0374416, 0374417 Film NONE



???

ANN SCRIVENS Pedigree
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 19 JAN 1814 St Ann Blackfriars, London, London, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: GEORGE SCRIVENS Family
Mother: FRANCES

--
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

---
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

P022091 1717 - 1861 0374416, 0374417 Film 6903713 Film

P022091 1717 - 1861 0374416, 0374417 Film NONE



sylvia

??? george and Frances' marriage


GEORGE SCRIVENS Pedigree
Male Family

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

--
Marriages:
Spouse: FRANCES ELIZABETH JONES Family
Marriage: 01 JUL 1809 Saint Andrew By The Wardrobe, London, London, England

--
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

--
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

M022322 1726 - 1840 0374344 Film 6903687 Film

M022322 1837 - 1885 0374345 Film NONE



sylvia

I have no idea whether these are connected to you or not, but this does look like Frances Elizabeth

1851 Census

Name: Frances E Scrivens
Age: 65
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1786
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: St Schulcka, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Battersea
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub registration district: Battersea
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 23
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Aldrich 39 Cook
Mary Childs 53 Nurse
Marianne Gimmel 40 Housemaid
Ann Scrivens 37 b.ca 1814, Blackfriars, No occupation shown
Frances A Scrivens 38 b.ca 1813, Blackfriars, No occupation shown
Frances E Scrivens 65 Widow, Fund Holder
Frederick Scrivens 21 b.ca 1830, Clapham, Solicitor Articled Clerk
William H Scrivens 29 b.ca 1822, Clapham, Spice Dealer

Address:- Clapham Common, North Side


sylvia

You are helping me so much, I am still not sure where Samuel fits in but James seems to be the correct family, I think I have been concentrating too much on John instead of James all because of the marriage cert but def same family on 1871 census, if only I could find him in 1881. I did find a death for a John in Westminster in 1873 aged 64 but that would mean he would have been born in 1809 not 1819. I don't think I could work out one for James.

Is it possible to please look at the 1841 Census for James that Rose posted for me, I have been looking for a birth for Margaret (daug) who is down as 4 but wondering if it could be 1 as I cannot find birth for that age in Lambeth. There is one Sep 1850 that could possible fit the bill.
Thanks
Julia

????? George and Frances in 1841, staying at a hotel

1841 Census

Name: Frances E Scrivens
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1786
Gender: Female
Where born: Foreign Parts

Civil Parish: Ross
Hundred: Greytree
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Ross
Sub registration district: Ross
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age

James Barrett Hotel Keeper
.
.

Ann Scrivens 27 b.ca 1814, Foreign Parts, Independent means
Frances Scrivens 28 b.ca 1813, Foreign Parts, Independent Means
Frances E Scrivens 55 Independent Means
George Scrivens 59 b.ca 1782, Foreign Parts, Independenrt Means
.
.
.

Address:- Barrett's Royal Hotel, Church Street, Ross


sylvia

Julia,

here you are. She is shown as 4 on the image.

1851 Census

Letitia Harwood 8 Mo b.ca 1850, Lambeth, Nurse Child
James Scrivens 30 Bricklayer
Margaret Scrivens 25 b.ca 1826, Lambeth
Margaret Scrivens 4 b. ca 1847, Lambeth, At Home <<<< defintely 4 on image

Address:- Queens Place



sylvia

from IGI, father William Scrivens, mother Mary, children orn 1820 +/- 20 years


England

Martha Elizabeth Scrivens - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 05 AUG 1827 St Marys, Lambeth, Surrey, England

Maria Scrivens - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 11 SEP 1831 St Mary'S, Lambeth, Surrey, England

JAMES SCRIVENS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 29 AUG 1819 Saint Mary, Lambeth, Surrey, England

ELIZABETH SCRIVINS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 03 MAR 1822 Saint Mary, Lambeth, Surrey, England

MARY SCRIVENS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 20 OCT 1816 Saint Mary, Lambeth, Surrey, England




sylvia

?????????


1841 Census

Name: James Scrivens
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Lambeth Church Second
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Scrivens 7 b.ca 1834, Surrey
James Scrivens 20 Plasterer
Maria Scrivens 9 b.ca 1832, Surrey
Martha Scrivens 14 b.ca 1827, Surrey
Mary Scrivens 45 b.ca 1796, Surrey
Sarah Scrivens 15 b.ca 1826, Surrey
William Scrivens 45 b.ca 1796, Surrey, Plasterer



Address:- Park Street, Lambeth






Do you know what James/John occupation was?? Did it say on the marriage certificate??



sylvia

?????

1851 Census

Name: Henry Scrivens
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Brother
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Lambeth
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Lambeth Church Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Edwin Scrivens 1
Elizabeth Scrivens 34
Henry Scrivens 16 Errand Boy
James Scrivens 4
William Scrivens 36 b.ca 1815, Lambeth, Plasterer

Address:- Queens Place



sylvia

Thanks Sylvia for looking for the 1841 census again, just hoping I think, will leave the birth alone for the moment it is not that important. I don't know what you do but for some reason I can't seem to come up with the whole family on IGI, I have to look individually and did come up with a couple only because I put in the parents names which is usually a cert.
At least I seem to have the correct family in James now which is brilliant. I have also found the marriage of William and Mary Smith in 1815 plus his birth 1794 to parents James and Mary. Actually the Smith I was pleased with as on Elizabeth's marriage certificate there was a Robert Smith as witness and I have him with wife in 1871 living in Aldershot and that is where Elizabeth & Husband James were living when the wedding took place, also he was born Farnham Surrey where James came from - okay just coincidence but you never know.
Thanks once again
Julia

Yes it did, he is down as a Blacksmith, whether he was living in Aldershot like his daughter I don't know but it might be a help. Thanks for these others, I did not realise they were there.

Julia

You're very welcome.


I found the information on IGI by putting in father's name and mother's name, year, and England.

Does that help??



sylvia

Julia

You'll have to work very carefully, it's hard to know if they are yours or not! There do seem to be quite a few Scrivens!



sylvia