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hi would like some help on trying to find two people

* maud ellen bellamy or maude ellen neal

* frances beatrice bellamy or frances beatrice neal

both born in the exeter area around 1878 give or take a few years they had a sister called florance ellen and two brothers william bellamy and
frederick bellamy william was rgisterd under neal but was a bellamy. if you need to see my ree let me know!!

simon

Could you tell us their parents' names, please? The info is pretty vague. Finding the household in a census could nail down birth years somewhat, or at least birth order, to help find them.

have you tried freebmd

Okay ... here's Maud in 1881:


Name: Maud E. Neal
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Exeter St Sidwell
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street address: 9 Hextons Court St Sidwells Street

Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: Exeter Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 9

Elizabeth Neal 13
Ellen J. Neal 24
Frances Neal 46
Maud E. Neal 3


Is Ellen her mother?

Er, yeah. Maud Ellen Neal's birth is right there in Exeter in Sep quarter 1878.

I was just kind of assuming you'd looked ...

But -- it's not their births you're looking for, it's what came later?

How's about -- you get the birth info for the various people from

http://www.freebmd.org.uk

and post it here, and then we can have a go at finding what you're looking for. Marriages, children, that sort of thing?

Looks like the people in 1891.


Name: Frances Neal
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Frances
Gender: Female
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England

Civil Parish: St Sidwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Exeter
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: Exeter Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 9

Ellen Neal 30 (aging somewhat slowly)
Frances Neal 48 (aging very slowly)
>> Frances Neal 10
>> Fred Neal 7
Henry Neal 44
>> Maud Neal 14
>> Willie Neal 4


Frances and Henry are shown (checked image) as parents, with all others as their children. This is inconsistent with 1881, in which Maud appears as granddaughter of Frances.


And now ... the questions?

Yes................. that's the Maud birth to which I referred above.

We do just like people do their own work occasionally!

There's one Frances Beatrice Bellamy registered in Leicestershirein 1891, and I wondered whether there might have been some sort of late registration, but no, she's present in the 1901 census.


Willie and Fred in 1901:


Name: Willie Bellamy
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Exeter
Ecclesiastical parish: St Sidwell
Town: Exeter
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: Exeter
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 225

>> Frederick Bellamy 17
>> Willie Bellamy 13
Charles Gard 38
Ellen J Gard 42
Ellen J Gard 8


Maud Ellen and Frances Beatrice have gone AWOL, is that it?

thats the question feel free to look at my tree the reason why we are lookinf for these two is there father we think is a man called frederick bellamy who we have in the workhouse in exeter aged 27 but on the marriage certs willie frederick put down father as samuel deceased so we were hoping that one of the girls could prove that frederick is the father

frederick was never married to ellen but obviosly had fatherd the children he then disappeared and ellen marries mr gard so the girls take on the name but we need to find there birth and marrige certs to help prove frederick is the father sorry if im not clear been at this 9-5 last two days and im a clear novice as you may have noticed lol

You can get that Maud birth cert Simon -- but my bet is that you'll find no father named.

So now that you're not so much of a novice anymore, you know what kind of info to provide!

(Offering to open yr tree isn't as useful as just putting the info in the thread to start with. It's very much of a pain to be looking at a thread and at the same time trying to make one's way around a foreign family tree.)

So the girls married as Gard. Do you have them in the 1901 census? Are you assuming they married as Gard? How do you know they took on the Gard name -- Willie and Fred apparently didn't, and they were younger ...

Hmm. Ellen Neal married as Bellamy.


Marriages Jun 1892
Bellamy Ellen Jane Exeter 5b 224
Gard Charles Henry Exeter 5b 224


And yet she doesn't even seem to have used that name in censuses.

this is why its confusing her father was a bellamy aswell william thomas bellamy!

the mystery is frederick samuel bellamy is he my gggf?
william or willie is my ggf

if we go strait back to frederick we think his parents are joanna (----) b1819 and charles bellamy b1815ish they had a daughter called emma b1850ish again we think!! is there any way you can confirm that?

Is this not likely Maud marrying? (Q again -- have you used FreeBMD to look?)


Name: Maud Ellen Bellamy
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 195


Great. Her details appear to have been mistranscribed. She is shown on a page with a bride and groom in Newton Abbot.

...No ... it definitely says Exeter, 5b, 195.

224 people married in Exeter and were recorded in vol 5b in that quarter. Finding errors would be a rather large task.

I would order the marriage certificate and include notes indicating that there may be an error in the GRO.

i have just got on freebmd and learning as fast as i can lol like i said new to me

Okay, you're losing me, Simon.

"this is why its confusing her father was a bellamy aswell william thomas bellamy!"

The father of Ellen Jane Neal / Bellamy / Gard

was

William Thomas Bellamy?

And you think the father of Ellen Jane's children was

"frederick bellamy who we have in the workhouse in exeter aged 27"?

Age 27 -- in what year might that be?

rite i can find people but where does it tell me who they married? sorry

Meanwhile, this person in 1901 is not your Maud:

Maud E Luxton Fredrick abt 1879 Exeter, Devon, England Wife Exeter, Devon

She was Maud Endacott Mann before marriage. Just for ruling out, in the search for her married name.


Here we go then. In 1901:


Name: Ellen Maud Hitchcock
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Walter J
Gender: Female
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Exeter
Ecclesiastical parish: St Olave
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: Exeter
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Household schedule number: 254

Ellen Maud Hitchcock 23
Walter J Hitchcock 27


I would order the marriage certificate under the husband's name -- his seems to be correct (I checked the image, and it does say 175), while hers seems to have been misrecorded in the GRO.

Name: Walter John Hitchcock
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 175


Unfortunately, I still suspect it may not tell you what you're looking for.

I searched for a Maud in the 1901 census who was born 1878 +/- 2 years in Exeter.

I saw that one in the results list, and she looked good.

So I searched for the marriage of Walter Hitchcock in 1898. And there he was -- a stray third wheel on a page with another couple, just like her.

Someone copied "175" as "195" when they copied the marriage info for Maud into the General Registry Office Index back in 1898.


Ordinarily, once you find someone's marriage at FreeBMD, you click on the page number and you see four names, two brides and two grooms (sometimes six, sometimes eight, sometimes two) -- or sometimes an odd number, indicating that there's a mistake somewhere in the transcription, or in this case, unusually, in the original. You suffer from bad luck!

Before mid-1911, the only way to be certain which bride married which groom is to get the marriage certificate. In 1911, the GRO started pairing them up.

in the 1881 census he was 27 all the others are just ways of trying to prove this chap!

born 1854-1855 i need concrete evidence that this guy is the father of william "willie" bellamy dob 1887

and yes ellen janes mother frances norman was married to william thomas bellamy so she is infact a bellamy by birth.