Find Ancestors

I would like some advice if poss please.

I have a birth cert for my hubby's gf. Emmanuel Francis Henderson b 24.09.1892 in Edinburgh. Father = Charles W Henderson, mother = Mary Josef? Henderson ne Bandura. The birth cert says his parents married 12.09.1882 in Cohasett?, Mass, USA. I have tried to find them in the 1891and 1901 census and not had any joy, also tried 1880 USA census for MASS on familysearch (no joy again for either Charles William Henderson or Mary Bandura). Does anyone have any tips on what to look at next or where to go to try and find them?

I don't know anything at all about either of them except that Charles W is listed as a house painter on Emmanuel's birth cert. I don't know where either of them were born or when, perhaps there is a slender link to another Bandura family in the 1880 census in Cohasett MASS, who all originally came from Sweden - but that could just be a co-incidence...

Thanks
Julie

I'm not surprised you didn't find them in 1890, seeeing as the census was 99.9% destroyed by fire and nothing from Mass survived. Also, by 1900, it would seem that your guys had left the USA for the UK by then.

If you search the LDS library catalogue for Massachusetts, one can find:

Title Births, marriages (1841-1895), and deaths (1841-1899); indexes to births and marriages (1841-1905), deaths (1841-1971)
Authors Massachusetts. Secretary of the Commonwealth (Main Author)

Notes Microfilm of original records in the Division of Vital Statistics, State House, Boston, Massachusetts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beginning with volume 4, records of births, marriages, and deaths are kept in separate volumes.

Subjects Massachusetts - Vital records
Massachusetts - Vital records - Indexes

Format Manuscript (On Film)
Language English
Publication Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah, 1974, 1985
Physical 398 microfilm reels ; 35 mm.



The view film notes button at top right gives:

Index to marriages A-Kel 1871-1875 FHL US/CAN Film 954868

Marriages v. 334-336(p.1-45) 1882 FHL US/CAN Film 1432995
Marriages v. 336(p.45-end),343-344(p.1-190) 1882-1883 FHL US/CAN Film 1432996


One can rent these films and view them via the LDS. They'll deliver to a FHC near you - to locate one, search at:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

Thank-you. There is a centre about 20 miles away. I will check about ordering the marriage films. That may give me a lead on Charles and Mary.

If anyone has any good ideas about why I can't find them in the 1891 or 1901 census in the UK, or tips on how to improve my searching, they would be happily recieved. I know that Emmanuel's family were born in the UK (Scotland and Cumbria), so I would hope to find them somewhere. I don't know if they went abroad again when Emmanuel was young.

Doesn't this look pretty likely to be them in 1901?


Name: Emmanuel Henderson
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Where born: USA B S

Name: Charles Henderson
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann
Where born: USA B S
>> Occupation: House painter

Name: Mary Ann Henderson
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles
Where born: USA B S

Town: Wallsend
County/Island: Northumberland

Registration district: Tynemouth

Charles Henderson 50
Mary Ann Henderson 39
Joseph Henderson 17
Charles Henderson 10
Emmanuel Henderson 8
Robert Henderson 5


It's not like it's a common combo of names. ;)

The "U.S. America B.S." is entered for head of household Charles, and then just dittoed for all the other family members. Likely lazy misreporting.

1891


Name: Chas Henderson
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary
Where born: City, Edinburgh
Registration Number: 685A/2
Registration district: St George Burgh
Civil Parish: Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County: Midlothian
Address: 92 Lady Lawson St
Occupation: Decorative Painter
ED: 129
Household schedule number: 86
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1891_339

Chas Henderson 40
Mary Henderson 25
Joseph Henderson 7
Charles G Henderson 11 Mo

Name: Mary Henderson
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : Chas
Where born: Subjec), Texas U S A (British
(it's messed around like that at Ancestry)

Name: Joseph Henderson
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Chas
Mother's Name: Mary
Where born: Subjec), Texas U S A (British

Name: Charles G Henderson
Age: 11 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Chas
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Subjec), Texas U S A (British

This fellow in 1881 might be worth a look:

Name: Chas Henderson
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Gender: Male
Where born: Montrose
Registration district: Shipping At Sea
> Civil Parish: Vessels
> County: Ships In European Ports
Address: Lily 55339 Montrose
> Occupation: A B Seaman
ED: Lily

He is also a seaman in 1871, but shows as born 1846. He could have got younger when he married a considerably younger woman. ;)

Husband
Stanislav Bandura Pedigree

Birth:
Wife
Julie Cleboska Pedigree
:
1. Mary Bandura Pedigree
Female

Birth: 18 DEC 1885 Chicago, Cook, Illinois

the Bandura's I came across all came from Hungary

The 1880 US census does have:


Name: Charles Henderson
Home in 1880: Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
>> Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head of Household: Self (Head)
Spouse's Name: Margaret
Father's birthplace: Scotland
Mother's birthplace: Scotland
>> Occupation: Painter
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Gender: Male

Name: Margaret Henderson
Home in 1880: Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head of Household: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles
Father's birthplace: Scotland
Mother's birthplace: Scotland

Name: Jennie Henderson
Home in 1880: Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts
Age: 7M
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Birthplace: Massachusetts
Relation to Head of Household: Daughter


Given the variations in the other census, with the occupation the one constant, he looks like a possible, possibly with a first wife.

I don't subscribe for access to images at ancestry.com, but this is the one Bandura-sounding name in Texas in 1880:

Name: Moralis Bendurus
Home in 1880: Precinct 1, Bee, Texas
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Birthplace: Mexico
Relation to Head of Household: Something other than a direct relationship (Other)
Neighbors: View others on page
Occupation: Shepard
Marital Status: Single
Gender: Male


There's a Banderas Bay in Puerto Vallarta!

And there are a few people named Bandera/Banderas in the 1880 US census, in Louisiana and Texas. The Louisianans come from an Austrian Bandera, and the Texans are of Mexican origin. There are also people named Bandera in Texas in the 1920 and 1930 census, including in Hidalgo county where some are in 1880.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the spelling on the birth cert necessarily. Of course, you might want to check the image for the 1891 Scottish census at scotlandspeople to check whether it actually says Texas. ;)

In the IGI for Maria Bandera born in Mexico (a possibility), there are several born in the early 1860s. One in Hidalgo, coincidentally.

Josef sounds Hungarian (Josefa? as in Archduchess Maria Josefa).

But Maria Josefa is equally Spanish/Mexican.

Btw, this is probably the place of marriage stated:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohasset,_Massachusetts

in Norfolk County, Mass.

Wow - thank-you everyone, I will be busy now chasing down your finds. How fantastic, I thought that I had hit a wall with these people. I'm so excited!

Julie

I thought those who helped me might like an update and I have another plea for help...

You were right in the census information above and I have managed to go back and find Charles parents and grandparents (Possibly) - all born around Edinburghshire in the 1800's. A lovely lady in America may have uncovered a scandal with a possibility of Mary being married before to someone called Thomas Mannix (Joseph being their son), which could mean that Charles and Mary were never married. This would also be the case if my Charles Henderson is the same Charles Henderson and wife Margaret in the 1880 census.

Anyway, back to the plot. I've found Charles and Mary on the 1911 census and they only ever had the 4 children listed in the previous messages. The record states that the eldest child Joseph was born in USA (possibly Boston, but this is scribbled out and difficult to read).

The short story is that I am no nearer finding a marriage for Charles and Mary (Mary Josephine in the 1911 census). I have found a possible trip across for Charles to the USA on the Circassia in 1879 (aged 28), but if this is him, all that it tells me is that he left from Glasgow and landed in New York and he was a painter (his occupation is 'house painter' in the English census records when he comes back to Blighty in the late 1800s early 1900s).

Charles was born on 29 December 1849 and baptised on 3 Feb 1850 in Colinton. He appears in the Scottish census for 1851 (aged 1) and 1861 (aged 10) , but I've run out of credits trying to find him in the 1871.

Now for my plea for help... Does anyone have access to ship passenger lists that might find him and Mary (Maria) Josephine (Joseph) coming from the USA to the UK? If Joesph was born in the USA (1911 census shows this) then it would have to be between 1884 (when Joseph was born) and 1892 (when Emmanuel is born).

Thanks for reading. If I have rambled beyond clear understanding please point me back to the path of logic.

Julie :o)

Updates always appreciated!

If you want to try tracking down the 1880 Hendersons in the US -- I searched 1900 for Jenn* Henderson in Massachusetts born 1880, and I can't see the details because I don't pay, but top of the list is:

Jennie Henderson
city, Suffolk, Massachusetts
birh date location
White relation

There are other Jennie/Jenny Hendersons in Suffolk County as well, but the one at the top of the results list would be the best match for my criteria. None show as having mother Margaret. (That Jennie is not living with parents, it seems.) There are of course Margarets in the vicinity.

And a tip about census searches - do consider getting a basic sub to Ancestry. The credit system here is not cost-effective in the long run.

To search for incoming passengers at Ancestry, i.e. to see details, one needs the sub above my own, so unfortunately I can't help there.

You can mess around with that search even without subscribing too, though:

http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=List&dbid=1518

Of course, there are half a dozen possibles ...

The time frame may be slightly narrower, if that's them in the 1891 census above.

Btw - Emmanuel Henderson was born 1892 in Scotland? Scotlandspeople gives one result for that search.

Have you viewed the record to see what info is given about his mother?


And for info, the 1911 census:

HENDERSON CHARLES 1851 60 Tynemouth Northumberland
HENDERSON MARY JOSEPHINE 1865 46 Tynemouth Northumberland
HENDERSON JOSEPH 1884 27 Tynemouth Northumberland
HENDERSON EMANNUEL 1893 18 Tynemouth Northumberland
HENDERSON ROBERT 1895 16 Tynemouth Northumberland

(Picked them out of the list of Hendersons living with a Charles, but not sure what the complete household composition is.)

Hi again. Thanks for the advice.

Also, some answers.

I have Emmanuel'sbirth record (details in initial post when I was at the brick wall stage). I have them in the 1911 census, but I didn't get as far as the 1891 with Scotland's People.

Looking back at the posting for the 1891 details, it would suggest that that this is the same family. In this case you are right and it narrows down the time when they could have come across, possibly as narrow as 1890 to 1891, but I've become vary wary of census records showing the children's birth in USA, as it was completely wrong in the 1901 census. The worst case scenario is that they came across somewhere between 1884 and 1891.

Julie :o)

Ah, right. ;)

"Mary Josef? Henderson ne Bandura."

But Charles Jr was born in the US?

Aha - not per the 1911 census! Mother Mary Josephine and children Joseph and Robert show as born in the US (when I use that in search criteria), but not son Charles. (Mind you, I don't see son Charles in the 1911, so I may have that wrong anyhow.)

Possibly in Scotland, and possibly the mother's name would make more sense?

Mmm. I've just gone back to my 1901 records and then looked again for Charles in 1911. There are a lot, but if you type place of birth as a search criteria as either USA, Scotland or Edinburgh then there are zero returns (the plot thickens). If you leave blank then there are load of possibilites. I will have a wade through and see if I can find him. He may not be in England for this census... Either way, not yet any closer to knowing how narrow the gap can be for when the family came to England from the US yet...

Julie

Possibly a breakthrough!

I looked at the 1911 census again and found a Charles J Henderson aged 20 (about right) in the military, but no image available and the wrong middle initial. However, that set off a chain of events...

I looked at military records in national archives and found a Charles Henderson who enlisted into the Royal Marines Artillery on 16/09/1909, I looked at the record and he was born on 7 April 1890 (looking good) in Boston - although it states Lincolnshire - at a stretch it could be Boston USA. Bear with me for tenuous links time:

the 1911 census image has Boston scribbled out next to his mothers place of birth, just leaving USA showing. His parents were supposed to be married in Cohassett, Mass, USA in 1882. My American lady who has tried to find them said that at that period people went across the bay to Boston to get married as they were not as strict as in Cohassett.

The father of Charles (in the artillery) is Charles Henderson in Wallsend. The rest of the Henderson family were living in Wallsend in the 1911 census - so this could be the son Charles (hurrah), which means if he was born in Boston then they had to come over after 7 April 1890, but before the 1891 census when they were living in Edinburgh. Now a very narrow window.

The search continues.

Julie :o)