Military Chat

Hi Everyone

I'm trying to find any service records for my Great Uncle - Samuel Holmes who apparently served in WW1. He was born in 1888 in Holmesfield Derbyshire and he passed away in January 1930 in Shirebrook, Derbyshire - he was married with four children.

In the record of the church service at his funeral it mentions that he signed up for service and saw action in France but he was injured in 1916 and discharged from the service. Since he received his injuries he did attend Birmingham Military Hospital.

I've tried searching but cannot find any record of Samuel's military service . I'm assuming he would have been with the Sherwood Foresters but that's not a given of course.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Kind Regards, Mike Holmes.

Unfortunately, most WW1 forces records have not survived, destroyed by bomb and fire damage at the records office.

His name was Sam, not Samuel.

Sam Holmes
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Sam Holmes
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: Samuel Holmes
Mother: Eliza Holmes
Birth Place: Holmesfield, Derbyshire, England
Civil parish: Pleasley
Ecclesiastical parish: Shirebrook Holy Trinity
Town: Shirebrook
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Registration district: Mansfield
Sub-registration district: Pleasley
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors:
Piece: 3134
Folio: 80
Page number: 15
Household schedule number: 81


Sam Holmes
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Sam Holmes
Gender: Male
Age: 3
Relationship: Son
Birth Year: 1888
Father: Samuel Holmes
Mother: Eliza Holmes
Birth Place: Dronfield, Derbyshire, England
Civil parish: Holmesfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Holmesfield St Swithin
Residence Place: Holmesfield, Holmesfield, Derbyshire, England
Registration district: Chesterfield
Sub registration district: Dronfield
ED, Institution or Vessel: 10
Neighbors:
Piece: 2772
Folio: 144
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Samuel Holmes 28 Head
Eliza Holmes 24 Wife
Alfred Holmes 4 Son
Beatrice Holmes 5 Daughter
Sam Holmes 3 Son
Minnie Holmes 1 Daughter


His birth:

HOLMES, SAM mmn HILL
GRO Reference: 1887 S Quarter in CHESTERFIELD Volume 07B Page 746


So , there are these possible bits of army records - but not the whole record, which must be one of those which didn't survive:

Sam. Holmes
in the UK, Silver War Badge Records, 1914-1920
Name: Sam. Holmes
Rank: Private
Military Year: 1920
Regiment: Notts and Derby (Sherwood Foresters) Regiment
Regimental Number: 18267
Discharge Unit: Lichfield
Discharge Regiment: Notts & Derbyshire Regiment
Badge Number: 25924
Piece: 3052
List Number: F 0301-0600
Record Group: WO
Record Class: 329

That man enlisted 30/10/14, and was discharged , because of wounds, on 24/1/17. Therefore very possibly wounded in 1916.
He had served overseas, but it doesn't say where.

Another part record for the same man:

Sam Holmes
in the UK, World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920
Name: Sam Holmes
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Company: WO 329
Regiment or Corps: Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment
Regiment Number: 18267
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal

And another:

Sam Holmes
in the UK, World War I Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923
View Original Image on Fold3.
Name: Sam Holmes
Record Type: Card
Discharge Date: 25 Feb 1917
Service Number: 18267
Corps, Regiment or Unit: Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment
Title: WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
Description: Other Ranks Survived
Reference Number: 11.w.44680, 6/Mh/2054
Next of Kin:
Name Relation to Soldier
Sam Holmes

However, there's nothing to identify him definitely as your great uncle.
[EDIT: BUT SEE POST BELOW AT 21:18 - assuming your great-aunt was Selina.]

Is this his marriage ?:

Marriages Sep 1913 (>99%)
Hayward Selina Holmes Mansfield 7b 182
Holmes Sam Hayward Mansfield 7b 182


In the 1921 census:

Samuel
Holmes
1888
Derbyshire, England
Shirebrook
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire

He's with Doris 1918, Horace 1914, Olive 1915, Selina 1915 (mistranscribed as Selma in 1921), and Selina 1892.

Aha! Here we are -

Sam Holmes
in the UK, World War I Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923
View Original Image on Fold3.
Name: Sam Holmes
Rank: Pte
Record Type: Card
Service Number: 18267
Corps, Regiment or Unit: Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment
Title: WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
Description: Widows and Dependents of Other Ranks Died Holmes M-Hookey SA
Next of Kin:
Name Relation to Soldier
Sam Holmes
Selina Holmes Widow

If that's your man, "widow" doesn't mean that Sam had died, which he obviously hadn't - just that Selina was named as NOK in case he were to die.



Death:

Sam Holmes
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Sam Holmes
Death Age: 42
Birth Date: abt 1888
Registration Date: Jan 1930[Feb 1930] [Mar 1930]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Mansfield
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 85


Someone named Ian Holmes has Sam on his GR tree - see "Search all member trees", under "Search" at top right of this page.

If you feel it's worth it, just in case there's anything more surviving (which isn't very likely) , you can apply for a copy of his record.

Info and instructions here:
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records

There's a non-returnable fee of £30, and it can take several weeks, if not months, for the record to be sent to you.

From Findmypast:-

First name(s) Sam
Country Great Britain
Last name Holmes
Medal type British Army Medal Index Cards, 1914-1920
Year 1914-20
Archive reference WO372/10
Service number 18267
Archive reference description Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards
Rank Private
Record set Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards
Regiment Nottinghamshire And Derbyshire Regiment
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Service record Soldier Number: 18267, Rank: Private, Corps: Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment
Subcategory Medal Rolls and Honours
Image link http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D2934275
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

and:-

First name(s) Sam.
Whether served overseas Yes
Last name Holmes
Badge number 25924
Rank Private
Badge date of issue 27-Feb-1917
Service number 18267
Record set Silver War Badge Roll 1914-1920
Regiment/unit Notts & Derbyshire Regiment
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Enlistment date 30-Oct-1914
Subcategory First World War
Discharge date 24-Feb-1917
Collections from England, Great Britain
Cause of discharge Wounds 392 (xvi)

There are no service records on Findmypast which would suggest that his records were among those that were destroyed.

Kath. x

Thank you all so very much for your your amazingly swift and dutiful replies - I am so very, very grateful. I will certainly chase up the details at the relevant office given the details you have provided. His wife was called Selina (quite unusual for these parts in the 1930's I would say) so I can certainly envisage this being the right chap. Thank you all once again, you have been brilliant.

Kind Regards,

Mike Holmes <3

If you haven't already sent for his WW1 record, it would be worth waiting until 1st April, after which date there will be no charge.

See the new info now showing on the link I posted above, on 29th January.

1921 in full...........purely for interest

1921 Census Of England & Wales
62, Reck Cottage, Main Street, Shirebrook, Nottinghamshire, England

Samuel Holmes Head Male 1888 33 Derbyshire, England Coal Miner Hewer Shirebrook Colliery Ltd
Selina Holmes Wife Female 1892 29 Brownhills, Staffordshire, England Home Duties -
Horace Holmes Son Male 1914 7 Mansfield Woodhouse, Nottinghamshire, England - -
Olive Holmes Daughter Female 1915 6 Mansfield Woodhouse, Nottinghamshire, England - -
Selina Holmes Daughter Female 1915 6 Mansfield Woodhouse, Nottinghamshire, England - -
Doris Holmes Daughter Female 1918 2 Shirebrook, Derbyshire, England -

NO service records for the man on FMP, so his must be among the 70% which haven't survived.

I have a similar problem to Michael's, in that my father fought in WW1 somewhere in France (Lost the place and Battle etc), and was wounded twice sent to Birmingham war hospital. Records partially lost/burnt in WW2 bombings.
Donald Laycock 80967
5th Company3rd Durham Light Infantry

Welcome to the boards, David.

It would have been better if you had started your own thread, as this one is about Sam Holmes.

However:

Donald Laycock
in the UK, British Army World War I Service Records, 1914-1920
Name: Donald Laycock
Gender: Male
Enlistment Age: 18
Birth Date: abt 1899
Document Date: 1917
Residence Place: 10 Cragg View, Sutton in Craven Yorks
Military Date: 1917
Relationship to Soldier: Self (Head)
Regimental Number: 80967
Regiment Name: Training Reserve ?? Batt Tr Dli
Number of Images: 10
Form Title: Record of Service
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Donald Laycock Self (Head)
John Arthur Laycock

The record does not say exactly where he was posted - if that's what you are asking.
It just says he was wounded in France in 1918.




Donald Laycock
in the UK, World War I Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923

View original image on Fold3.com (may require an additional subscription).

Name Donald Laycock
Gender Male
Rank Private
Record Type Military
Birth Date 1899
Residence Place Keighley
Military Service Region Yorkshire, North East
Military Country England
Discharge Date 12 Mar 1919
Service Number 80967
Corps, Regiment or Unit Durham Light Infantry
Service Branch Military (Army)
Title WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
Description Prc Ledgers
Reference Number 4/Ml/No.4329
Next of Kin (Name)
Donald Laycock

images on find my past

Donald
Residence county Yorkshire
Last name Laycock
Residence country England
Birth year 1899
Series WO 363
Age 18
Series description Wo 363 - First World War Service Records 'Burnt Documents'
Year 1917
Archive The National Archives
Service number TR/5/6234
Record set British Army Service Records
Regiment Training Reserve
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Unit / Battalion 2nd Battalion
Subcategory First World War
Residence town Keighley
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

brightsolid online publishing ltd.

Donald
Residence county Yorkshire
Last name Laycock
Residence country England
Birth year 1899
Series WO 363
Age 20
Series description Wo 363 - First World War Service Records 'Burnt Documents'
Year 1919
Archive The National Archives
Service number 80967
Record set British Army Service Records
Regiment Durham Light Infantry
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Unit / Battalion 3rd Battalion, 5th Company
Subcategory First World War
Residence town Keighley
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

brightsolid online publishing ltd.

Donald
Country Great Britain
Last name Laycock
Medal type British Army Medal Index Cards, 1914-1920
Year 1914-20
Archive reference WO372/12
Service number 80967
Archive reference description Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards
Rank Private
Record set Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards
Regiment Durham Light Infantry
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Service record Soldier Number: 80967, Rank: Private, Corps: Durham Light Infantry
Subcategory Medal Rolls and Honours
Image link http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D3319454
Collections from Great Britain, UK None