Military Chat

I am trying to trace if my grandfather served abroad in WW1, he was private in the Southh Lancashire Regiment service No 201978,can any one help.
Thanks Alan

You can apply for a copy of his army record:

https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records

It costs £30, but may take several weeks or even months to arrive.


EDIT:

You can only apply for records from 1920 onwards.

But as the record below mentions 1920, I suppose there might be something.

Just for our reference:

Charles A Robinson
in the UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920
Name: Charles A Robinson
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Company: WO 329
Regiment or Corps: South Lancashire Regiment
Regiment Number: 201978
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal


I don't see anything else army-related for him online.
Be aware that many WW1 records have not survived.

Thanks for all your help much appreciated.Alan

The British War Medal, a silver medal, was approved in 1919. In the Army it was issued to those who entered a theatre of war on duty or rendered approved service overseas between 5 August 1914 and 11 November 1918. It was issued without the Allied Victory Medal to certain regular and mobilised personnel who did not see any active service. The medal was also awarded for certain specified services in Russia and some other areas during 1919 and 1920. Similar rules applied to those serving with the RAF/RFC. The award could be made posthumously. About six and a half million silver medals were issued. Some 110,000 British War Medals in bronze were issued to the Chinese, Maltese and Indian Labour Corps personnel, and a few other colonial units of a non-combatant and subsidiary nature.

The Allied Victory Medal, a bronze medal, was awarded to all those who received the 1914 or 1914–15 Star (see below), and with certain exceptions, to those who received the British War Medal. It was never awarded alone. To be eligible it was necessary to have been mobilised in any of the fighting services and to have served in any of the theatres of operations between 5 August 1914 and 11 November 1918. In certain circumstances service up to 13 January 1919 was acceptable. Similarly, women who served (eg as nurses) could receive the award. The medal could be awarded posthumously.
Source: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/5119/

The medal card typically gives the date a theatre of war was entered, and which theatre (although this is quite often omitted when it's "France or Flanders")

South Lancashire Regiment

The South Lancashire Regiment was formed in 1881 as a result of the Cardwell reforms of the British Army.

With its Regimental Depot at Peninsula Barracks, Warrington, the Regiment initially consisted of two battalions, with the 1st formed from the former 40th Regiment of Foot, and the 2nd from the former 82nd (Prince of Wales’s Volunteers).

The Regiment recruited primarily from that area of South Lancashire which is centred on the townships of Warrington and St Helens.

During World War I the Regiment expanded to a total strength of 21 battalions. They served on the Western Front, at Gallipoli, and in Macedonia, Egypt, Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq) and India. In all, they were awarded a total of 64 Battle Honours. The Regiment suffered a total of 5450 casualties. Four members of the Regiment were awarded the Victoria Cross.

http://www.lancashireinfantrymuseum.org.uk/south-lancashire-regiment/

British Army Service Records

First name(s) Charles
Last name Robinson
Birth year -
Service number 201978
Regiment South Lancashire Regiment
Residence town Warrington
Residence county Lancashire
Residence country England
Series WO 363
Series description Wo 363 - First World War Service Records 'Burnt Documents'
Archive
The National Archives
Record set British Army Service Records
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory First World War
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

From the pages I can see (much cannot be seen as part of theBurnt documents)

Admitted Lord Derby War Hospital Warrington 13.2.19 and discharged 28.2.19

On enlistment joined 4th TF Battalion South Lancs Regimental No. 4201

Was married to ? Harriet (can only see --rriet) Ann
then under that a number partly missing --978 (so presume Reg. No 201978)
then under again - 4201 Robinson C A
Nil written in for Children
Served Home 27.12.15 to 3.2.17
and then France from 4.2.17 - no end date given
Awarded British War Medal and Victory Medal

NOK - Harriett Hannah Robinson, 6 Heaton Street, Warrington

Charlie A Robinson - medical inspection report (on enlistment to Territorial Force)
Apparent age 23 years 1 month
Height 5' 5"
Chest measurement when fully expanded 37", range of expansion 2'
Considered fit for the TF

Then dated 29.3.19 and stamped by the War hospital - a Protection Certificate and Certificate of Identity for a soldier not remainingg with the Colours
Charles Robinson Regimental No. 201978
Rank Private
From Record Office/Pay Office at Shrewsbury.
Address for Pay - 6 Heaton Street, Warrington, Lancs


Theatre of War - Western
Born in the tear - 1893
Medical Category - Grade 2
Place to rejoin in case of emergency - Oswestry
Specialist Military Qualification - Signaller

Letter from hospital informing South Lancs Record Office of his admission Whitecross Auxiliary Hospital Warrington on 13.2.19 whilst on leave from the Expeditionary Force with Neurasthenia and will require hospital treatment for an indefinite period


Medical report on a soldier Boarded prior to Discharge or Transfer to Reserves -

Reported for duty 5.11.15 at Warrington, Formerly a Torpedo Net Maker
Date/place of origin of disability - 13.2.19 Warrington
Admitted from leave suffering from Influenza and Neurasthenia
Name of National Health approved Society - Prudential Insurance Co.
Name/Address last employer before joining Army - Bewsey Wire Ropery, Bewsey Street, Warrington
Occupation before joining Army - Torpedo Net Maker

Served France and Belgium during this War in Capacity of Infantryman

-----------

So looks like joined TF initially, no. 4201 and then perhaps to regular with no. 201978
Served in France and Belgium and whilst on leave in 1919 was admitted to hospital locally and discharged unfit for further duty.

---------------

? His marriage Harriet

First name(s) CHARLES A
Last name ROBINSON
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1915
Registration month -

CHARLES A ROBINSON married one of these people
Harriet A Lewis
Spouse's last name Lewis
District Warrington
District number -
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8C
Volume as transcribed 8C
Page number 351

Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards

Record: First World War Record

Year of service: 1914
First name(s) Charles A
Last name Robinson
Year 1914-20
Service number 201978
Rank Private
Regiment South Lancashire Regiment
Service record Soldier Number: 201978, Rank: Private, Corps: South Lancashire Regiment
Image link
Country Great Britain
Medal type British Army Medal Index Cards, 1914-1920
Archive reference WO372/17
Archive reference description Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards
Record set Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Medal Rolls and Honours
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

----------------
Name: Charels A Robinson
Regiment or Corps: Prince of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire) Regiment
Regimental Number: 2019 78

Do you have Charles and Harriet's entry in the 1939 Register?


Charles A Robinson's life in 1939
20 Queens Avenue, Warrington C.B., Lancashire, England

Charles Robinson
Robinson household
(6 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Charles A Robinson 02 May 1892 Male Goods Guard Lms Railway Married 37 1
Harriet A Robinson 19 May 1894 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 37 2
Elsie M Shaw 31 Mar 1920 Female Cardboard Box Maker Single 37 3
Joan Allen (Shaw) 24 Jun 1921 Female Shirt Machinist Single 37 4
The record for this person is officially closed.
The record for this person is officially closed.

Ref: RG101/4660I/005/37 Letter Code: NRBH
© Findmypast Ltd

Looking at the original - Elsie and Joan look to be daughters of Charles and originally their surname was dittoed Robinson. At some point after 1939 Elsie became Shaw and Joan became Allen. As their records are open, it would indicate they have died.
The 2 closed records are probably 2 younger children born 1923 and 1928 whose deaths have not been proved so their details are closed under the 100 year rule.

H thanks to all for the info abt my grandfather, I am Alan Shaw son of Frank Shaw and Elsie Mary Shaw. the 2 other children were Charles W Robinson and James(Jim) Robinson. all are deceased.
Thanks Again Alan