General Chat

An A at GCSE is probaly equivalent to grade 3 or at best a grade at GCE O level.

Can anyone tell me what 'O' levels are worth, then ? I only put my 'C' & above passes on my CV, so should the rest be counted too ? :0) Joan

Christine, While I very much agree with your basic premise, as I said on the spelling thread yesterday , does it really matter that he uses a calculator - the technology is there so why not use it.? I write as an old fogey who can usually tut tut with the best of them. Very best wishes. Happy days

In terms of discipline at school - surely discipline starts at home. Parents must take the brunt of the blame for the poor discipline in schools. Teachers cannot undo the damage done at home in the short time they have with each child - though they might be able to control it if they are good enough. Obviously - I hope - I am not aiming this at all parents equally. But it only takes one disruptive student to destroy a lesson - many classes have far more than one. William

I don't think it is just underfunding we are sufferenig from years of interference from the educational dogooders who 'know best' and this is what we get as a result. Standards have been dropping steadily since the end of the 1960's, children are unrully, wont do as they are told and quite frankly bone idle. One size fits all doesn't work .There will always be those who do their utmost but will never get more than a bare pass. Of course these children need encouragement and something at the end of it all. The problem with the way things are now is that the better performers are not performing to their full extent either but we are pretending they are by giving then A's when many in reality are no better than C. At best only 15-20 % or so can achieve top A grades. Any one who has studied basis statistics understands the principle of distribution curves. If you try and fix the distribution so that more appear to be A's then you are sadly kidding yourself. My company (a well known bank) is strarting to have real difficulty in recruiting. We are now looking to stop taking school leavers with just GCSE's and concentrate on A level students and graduates.

I think basic arithmatic is being lost nowadays. About 36 years ago I used to wait on in a pub and serve behind the bar. I could add up to about £12 in orders in the old pound shilling and pence up in my head. Nowdays barstaff cant add two drinks up without using the adding machine in the till!! Davex

Hi Foxy, I am a teacher and have to take issue with it being a poorly paid job. Certainly it is not as well paid as some jobs - but you would probably complain if your taxes shot up to give all public sector employees a comparable salary to those in the private sector. Also, most teachers are not in it for the money. As for Gordon Brown giving £8 billion of our hard earned tax money to improve the standard of education in Africa. If we waited till our own problems were sorted out completely then we would never help others. I taught as a volunteer in rural Kenya for a year. £100 fees for a year of secondary school. £2 fees for a year of primary school. Imagine the vast resources they can afford! I don't think we have very much to complain about. William

My OH did his A levels in the late 60s and our son took his 8 years ago. OH was staggered at how much easier our son's A level maths syllabus was than when he took it. English language GCSE is certainly a lot easier than the old O level was but I think it is better in a lot of ways. It isn't often that anyone is called upon to parse a sentence, which is what we had to do. The emphasis now is on effective communication which is a good thing. However, I do feel there is not enough emphasis on spelling and grammar. Gwynne

I got 4 C's 2 D's a G and a U!!!

At GCSE the grades A*-G are 'passes' with a U as a 'fail'. At A-level the grades A-E are 'passes' with U as a 'fail'. I teach Maths and have mixed feelings about all this....I remember one girl who worked SO hard for 5 years of secondary school but didn't have much ability - she got an F at GCSE - and for her to have 'passed' was fantastic. But for your average job then a meaningful pass has to be at least a grade C. Standards ARE dropping - I've been teaching nearly 7 years (not that long really) and have seen the difficult end of GCSE Maths moving into the A-level course. And the difficult end of A-level Maths moves out into Further Maths. And the universities, quite rightly, complain that students don't know what they once did. Anyone who claims that standards are not dropping does not know what they are talking about. I heard one mother comment, 'But my daughter was so stressed over her A-levels and worked SO hard - so standards can't be dropping'. She would have been more stressed 5 years ago... Rant over. William

he'll be ok for NVQ ............. Not Very Qualified.

Beautifully put, Felicity. It's also important to identify and deal with our own weaknesses, as you say. I realised a long time ago that I would never be able to drive. I tried to learn several times and it just isn't for me, I would be a danger to others. I don't think it makes me any less of a person than anyone else because I know I have other strengths. I have other weaknesses that, with a bit of effort, I have been able to improve on but I was not destined to drive. It's important that we teach to the strengths in children and help them accept that weaknesses are part of the human condition. Gwynne

Carol, I absolutely agree with you that it is unacceptable for teachers to crush a child's self esteem. There is an important lesson that people seem not to be learning these days, however, and that is that none of us can succeed at everything. To fail at something need not crush us and children need to learn their limitations and that they cannot succeed at or have everything. Destroying someone's self esteem is unacceptable, but identifying a persons strengths and weaknesses and making the most of them is an entirely reachable goal. People need to know what they cannot do as well as what they can and as long as we try to identify every effort as 'deferred success', (some notion I heard about recently), I believe we are short-changing our children.

No, I don't hink you're old fashioned. Most employers see Grade C and above as the only useful ones, but if, for instance, someone wanted to employ someone who had just a passing knowledge of French then a Grade D or even E might be enough. It's all a perspective really and employers can really call the tune. I agree that if I was interviewing and someone didn't put their grades on their application I wouldn't give them a second glance. There are too many people who aren't trying to bluff their way into a job withouth wasting time on the ones who are.

I got a d in engish,in 1990 and it was a pass.......... i got a u in maths failed............BUT i went to stage skoll(LOL)so not really something to go by!

No wonder you are now Ms Rebecca Batty - and all the title that comes afterwards Bec, you clever girl. Didn't you do well?

Anything below a C is technically a 'Fail'. Most Universities (and some Employers) like at least a 'C' in Maths and English Language. Becx (Who has 10x A*-C)

The reason this person did not put their grades on their CV is because they know their qualifications are effectively worthless. At my former workplace, anyone who did not state their grades would have their application binned, as it was assumed they had lower grades than the advert stated. It was the same with people who did not have Maths, Science and English at GCSE C or above. Plenty of applicants reached those minimum requirements so we wouldn't waste our time on people who didn't or who made us guess.

9 GCSEs sounds impressive until you find level and the subjects they are in. Is there perhaps a tet you could give at the interview to sort the wheat from the chaff thereby not discrimating against those who didn't do so well but could do the job. Hubby had to do tests for his job so would think that this is not unreasonable. I also think hubby is dyslexic but he doesn't want to explore the possibility as he feels that it is too late to do anything now.

Pippa I can see your point.....we advertised for a general vacany and called for interview those who seemed well qualified....and of course one who has 9 GCSE's on their CV must be on our list.....our mistake