General Chat

"John made the assertion that the low (?) retail price of power in the UK is somehow linked to the vertical integration of the big 6."

Can't find another John on the thread. I made no such assertion. And am not even sure what you mean by vertical integration. Sounds like a circus act. :-S

Your comment about not switching is just so not right. The range in prices is enormous across the 20 companies. I do very much agree that there are ways to reduce cost. Like jumpers, shivering and perhaps Government insisting a 3 bedroomed house is inhabited by at least 6 people (or they pay a levy) during the winter months

We only need to pack people together in a few houses from, say, Christmas till end of February to:
1. See a massibe reduction in gas bills.
2. Get to know a lot more people really well and have a 9 week party :-D :-D

The only power users who can trade directly with the grid are heavy duty manufacturers - steel, chemicals, car plants and so on. Even my mates in Eaton Sq are under the bar, even the houses soon to be lit up with wall to wall xmas lights ...

Prepayment rates will be the same as standard rate as smart meters gradually roll out.

John made the assertion that the low (?) retail price of power in the UK is somehow linked to the vertical integration of the big 6. This is not true. The retail price in all EU countries is manipulated and has no particular causal link with wholesale prices whatever the spokespeople of the big 6 may say..

Here is a recent Economist article on the matter - no sub. required. PIctures!
Warning: a hard read but rewarding.

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21587782-europes-electricity-providers-face-existential-threat-how-lose-half-trillion-euros

Personally I don't think the marginal savings from switching are worth the hassles. There are easier ways to save a few pounds e.g. turn down the dial, move south or even wear a pullover.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_and_Gromit

Don't you find that unless you get a fixed price ALL the companies raise their prices eventually. We switched in the past with promises that they would remain at a certain price only to find that within 3 months extra bits had been incorporated to increase the bill i.e. standing charges that were not there in the beginning.

Gas was:

Denmark 12.1
Italy 8.0
Austria 7.2
Belgium 7.1
Germany 7.0
Greece 7.0
Spain 6.6
Portugal 6.4
France 6.3
Netherlands 6.3
Ireland 5.3
UK 4.7

I pay 3.8. Jonesey pays 3.387

These are averages for elec last year:

Denmark 30.4
Germany 25.2
Belgium 22.9
Spain 20.7
Ireland 19.6
Austria 19.3
Portugal 18.8
Sweden 18.4
Netherlands 17.6
Italy 16.6
UK 15.0

I looked at a couple of pre-payment meters recently and noticed SSE (Swalec) were 17p per unit and EOn were 13.4p - so probably 15p is a good average. I pay 12.8 and I regret to note that Jonesey has got his even lower than that. So it does pay to be savvy and shop around.

Once again, the UK is bottom of a European league table. But Cammili Eronband, our Prime Minister for next 7 years, will turn that round, I feel sure :-( :-(

"This is utter rubbish. The lowest wholesale prices by a country mile are in Germany. That this then translates into some of the highest retail prices is another story."

ROFL, Rollo. Are you for real? Have you a very large mansion and are able to buy energy wholesale? All that most of us ordinary people who read chat are concerned about is how much goes out of our bank every week or month. And energy prices are less here than in any comparable European country. DESPITE your friends Cameron and Miliband :-D ;-)

"The free market for energy has 1. kept the prices of our most expensive suppliers lower than anywhere else in Europe "

This is utter rubbish. The lowest wholesale prices by a country mile are in Germany. That this then translates into some of the highest retail prices is another story.

The burn n' earn strategy of the major UK generators with gas/coal/wood chip (Drax) running at high rates of utilisation with radial grids is coming apart faced with serious amounts of green energy now coming on stream and mesh distribution. Wholesale rates in Germany have even been negative i.e. producers have had to pay the grid to accept power.

All of this is having a very negative effect on big 6 finances.

Milliband threatens to reshape the UK energy market but hard facts will do this anyway - he is kicking an open door.

The only people who don't seem to get it are as usual the comic twins in 10&11 who are planning to contract for high prices nuclear which will be unsaleable by the time it comes on stream but UKGov will have underwritten the strike price. All of a piece with the HS2 folly I guess.

Some smaller energy companies outside of the big six

First Utility 01926 320700
Utility Warehouse https://utilitywarehouse.co.uk
Opus Energy 0843 2272366
DONG Energy 0207 257 0100
Contract Natural Gas Ltd (CNG) 01423 502554
Corona Energy 08442 646464
Haven Power 01473 725943
Dual Energy 0845 521 4291 / 0845 230 2058
Gazprom 0845 230 2058
LoCO2 0845 074 3601

Happy saving:-D

Romany Star. I would look seriously at a couple of the smaller companies. They carry less David Cameron/Ed Miliband costs that the 6 giant companies. First Utility, Utility Warehouse and Dove are 3 of about 14 small companies.

Find a phone number, and ask them for cheapest paperless account. Pay by monthly direct debit. You may be pleasantly surprised. :-)

Never been too keen on fixing for a couple or more years, because they charge so much to cover their "risk". But you could also ask them if they have a good fixed deal currently.

Southern Electric are raising their gas and electric prices too. I want to change anyway, not happy with them. Does anybody have any recommendations for good companies? I pay by direct debit by the way.
PS, lol John!!!!!

We so easily forget the miseries of coal fires, OFITG. The two sat next to it were in bikinis supping iced drinks. Those more than 4 feet away were wearing thermal underwear and heavy jumpers and supping tea.

Central heating is one of the affordable (for most) luxuries of 21st century. If you feel cold, you can just turn a little knob. No taking a dirty bucket down three flights of stairs to fill it will coal and lugging it back up, no twisting little bits of paper and finding bits of wood for faggots. No dangerous matches everywhere, no bits of coal spitting across and burning your luxury wool mat or worse. No... (better stop there) :-)

Since the introduction smokeless zones and the demise of coal, I do not think that central heating is considered by many these days to be a luxury - more an essential I would say.

The free market for energy has 1. kept the prices of our most expensive suppliers lower than anywhere else in Europe 2. enabled us to spend more on insulating our homes, updating our luxury central heating and pursuing green renewables. Houses with one or two residents are generally warm now, whereas they were flippin cold with half a dozen living in them 30 years ago.

Fracking and nuclear can be part of a mix that will continue to give us the cheapest power in Europe.

What seems to have been missed in BG hike is that it is electricity that they have zapped up. Gas (clue is in name) is not too bad an increase - and OFITG included that in Opening Post. SSE and Eon tend to have lower elec prices, but not so likely to have cheaper gas prices. Wait till Eon and N Power and some of others announce their gas increases :-0

Jonesey - If all British Gas customers and come to that all Scottish and Southern Energy (SSE) customers switched their supplier, it would give the big six energy suppliers something to think about, not least how they would explain to their shareholders why the share price, dividends, and profits have dropped.

Whether you are correct or not OFITH I hope whoever pays the bill takes heed the prime minister's advice and switch their supplier if British Gas is their current one.

If all British Gas customers, private, civil and industrial did that now then perhaps all members of "The Big Six" energy suppliers might sit up and take notice that such price hikes could lose rather than gain them even more profits.

The Chancellor George Osborne during a speech yesterday at a nuclear power station in southern China, said:-

“Today is another demonstration of the next big step in the relationship between Britain and China – the world’s oldest civil nuclear power and the world’s fastest growing civil nuclear power. It is an important potential part of the Government’s plan for developing the next generation of nuclear power in Britain. It means the potential of more investment and jobs in Britain, and lower long-term energy costs for consumers.

Yes - he actually said "lower long-term energy costs for consumers"

One has to admire what he hopes will come out of this deal but I won't be surprised if the reverse occurs, because when I look at privatised industries such as gas. electricity, public transport, and water, I can find few instances where prices have not risen year after year, usually well above the rate of inflation and it is already being reported that the latest privatisation Royal Mail is already considering raising their prices.

There again I think I am correct in saying, if I am wrong someone will correct me, the Chancellor, Prime Minister, and other ministers, who have accommodation provided by the government, do not pay the gas & electricity bills for that accommodation, the state pays the bills and all the Chancellor, Prime Minister, and other ministers pay, is the income tax due on the amount the state paid, as the amount is considered to be a benefit in kind - so if their energy bill was £2,500 and their tax rate was 45% they would only pay £1,125 and if applicable any Class 1A NI contribution, all right for some - after-all we are all in it together ;-)

Some words of comfort for all British Gas customers from the Prime Minister David Cameron - he said he was very disappointed and that customers who are not happy should try and get a better deal by switching energy supplier.

Those words of comfort should keep you warm this winter ;-)

Jonesey - when I got wind of Scottish and Southern Energy (SSE) raising their prices back in early October, I fixed by gas and electricity prices until July 2015 avoiding this years increase and next years increase.

There are still some deals out there to be had, and my advice to anyone thinking of switching their supplier or changing their tariff, is don't wait till tomorrow, next week, or next month, to decide to switch supplier or change tariff - do it today.

There are still deals available at the moment and it is a fairly safe bet that they will rapidly be withdrawn in the current round of price rises - some have already been withdrawn over the past 10 days.

What consumers have to do is try to anticipate such things happening.

Last week I switched suppliers for my dual fuel supply. By doing so I not only significantly reduced the unit prices that I was paying but also fixed the new prices until 31/3/2015 thus avoiding both this years increases and next years probable increases as well.

I was paying 4.20p per kWh for gas, I am now paying 3.387p per kWh. (-19.3%)

I was paying 12.89p per kWh for electricity I am now paying 11.01p per kWh (-14.5%)

All the above figures include VAT. Where there was an increase was in the standing charges which both increased slightly but those increases will be more than offset by the savings in consumed unit prices.

It always pays to shop around.

British Gas is to increase prices for domestic customers, with a dual-fuel bill going up by 9.2% from 23 November.

The increase includes an 8.4% rise in gas prices and a 10.4% increase in electricity prices, British Gas's parent company Centrica said.

Nearly eight million households will be affected by the price rise by British Gas, which operates as Scottish Gas in Scotland. On average they will see a dual-fuel bill increase by £123 to £1,444 a year.

However, there are significant regional variations. On average, the biggest increase in a dual-fuel bill is an 11.2% rise in the Scottish Hydro Electric region. The smallest is a 6.8% increase in the south west of England.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24562930