General Chat

DE ja Vu?

Received this as a petition, what do you think?

Currently there is a Private members Bill presented by Mr Philip Hollobone MP that is passing to its second reading in the house of commons that asks, the government to pass a law to provide a system of national service for young persons.

We the undersigned do not want our children and grandchildren to be forced to undertake mandatory conscription or service in to any system that requires them by law to submit to training or residential activity, that is not optional and carries a criminal penalty for non compliance. We do not support any attempts to force young people between the ages of 18-26 in to any training that carries the option of military style training or conscription in to the military for any reason that is not voluntary.

It is unacceptable to force any person to engage in training that has mandatory residential elements, military training and or actual service in the military without the ability to refuse, without placing themselves in a position of having to brake the law and gaining a criminal record. We do not want our children and grandchildren to fight and die in wars, or in training that they or we have no control over.

We ask that the Private Members Bill, The National Service Bill 2013-14 Presented by Mr Philip Hollobone be rejected in its entirety and that our government reassure us that non voluntary service and any residential or military style training, or service will always be a freedom of choice and not a system of conscription imposed upon UK citizens, especially young people, who should be able to choose their own futures.

I am totally against any form of compulsory military ( or 'military style') national service, as the mum of a nearly 18 year old, it would completely screw up his career path and for what?

I think they should 'brake' the law myself.......sorry, couldn't resist :-D

LOL you spotted that!! I didn't..............doh! thats the trouble with C&p'ing

I am completely against it as well Rose and I signed the petition a week ago .

personally I don't think that it would work,
in the 50's I and many thousands of young people were conscripted for two years national service, fortunately I was deferred and finished my apprenticeship beforehand,
but at THAT time we were all BRITISH,

I doubt if these days they would take any foreign radicals into service........ so just who, I wonder, is this Bloke targeting?

Is this the idea that involves Joanna Lumley?

That, I thought, involved some sort of community service which might be a good idea.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2013-2014/0032/14032.pdf

go here to read this bill,

Bob

Sorry but I got to have a giggle, The petition organiser has posted "Mr Hollobone MP has compromised the integrity of this petition" complaining that Philip Hollobone MP has been telling his supporters to sign the petition in order to force the debate in parliament and said she was withdrawing the petition

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/uk-government-stop-the-national-service-bill-2013-14


Does this person not understand just what the consequences of her own petition was if it had been successful.

On a personal note, It will never happen because it will cost the taxpayer far too much although I am in favour of compulsory conscription for people between 18 and 28 who are long term unemployed and also repeat offenders

Roy

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2013-2014/0032/cbill_2013-20140032_en_2.htm

"(2)Regulations shall also provide that the scheme shall include—

(a)a residential element, requiring that participants live away from home;
and
(b)an element of public service, comprising one or more of the following
5 to be chosen by the individual—
(i)charitable work,
(ii)social action,
(iii)care for the elderly or disabled,
(iv)overseas development activity, or
(v)work connected with the National Health Service, the
emergency services or the Armed Forces.


And just why should my son be expected, after he has finished Uni or starts work, next year to then take the compulsory year NS at mimimum wage?


"Scope of the scheme

(1)Regulations shall provide that the scheme must extend the scope of the
National Citizen Service and include the following elements—

(a)educational assistance for those participants who have yet to attain
basic educational requirements of reading and writing in English and
mathematics; (**after 13/15 years in the education system they are sending out teenagers who can't read or add up?!!)

(b)coaching and instruction to attain basic levels of physical fitness,
personal discipline, smart appearance, self respect and respect for
others;

(c)instruction in personal financial budgeting, household bills, nutrition,
cooking, time keeping, life skills, tolerance towards others, treating
elderly and disabled people with dignity and respect; and

(d)instruction in basic aspects of the law in relation to the most common
offences involving young people.

words fail me...

"Regulations shall provide that a person who has successfully completed their
year of national service shall be presented with a national service certificate
which shall entitle them to a lifetime income tax rate personal allowance 10 per
cent above the personal allowance that would otherwise apply."

So not only is the tax payer going to be paying for this un-necessary interruption to my son's career, when he could be earning and paying tax...but the 'tax pot' is going to be affected for approx 50 years. Wow what a brain that man has....

I am sure that many parents in the fifties felt the same way, but THAT was the cold war era.........

and this lark appears to be just for ONE year.........just how much can a person learn in a year? given that all those subjects are in the " curriculum?"

I am also against.

I think in this day and age if someone wants to join up they can, if they dont they wont. Just think about putting a weapon in the hands of some of the idiots that walk the streets today, doesnt bare thinking about or the safety of some of the instuctors.

I quite agree with Hayley. Well said!

My understanding of this is that it is NOT National service as in making anyone join the armed forces,

as posted by RR the individual will have the choice and unless they chose the Armed forces then I doubt anyone will have a weapon thrust in their hands

Edit "(2)Regulations shall also provide that the scheme shall include—

(a)a residential element, requiring that participants live away from home;
and
(b)an element of public service, comprising one or more of the following
5 to be chosen by the individual—

(i)charitable work,
(ii)social action,
(iii)care for the elderly or disabled,
(iv)overseas development activity, or
(v)work connected with the National Health Service, the
emergency services or the Armed Forces


As for the fact that after years in the education system some youngsters and not so young still lack the skills required in this day and age is not only saying a lot about our education system but it also says a lot about some parents who have also let their children down by not giving the correct support and failing to instil respect and discipline in their offspring.


Roy

Some of these youngsters of today are not able to read,write or know which way round a baseball cap should be worn, and have no respect for other people or property a little discipline MIGHT be able to sort them out, and they might learn that there is an eight o'clock in the morning as well as at night......that there IS a life that is not dependant on benefits

it IS only one year out of 8 and I dare say that they can select when they do it ...........we of my era had no choice........18 and you were IN...for TWO years...unless you were deferred

Although its a Private Members Bill, it reads as if it is trying to manipulate the employment figures.

As it is, the school leaving (training/college) age is being raised to 18 (year 13) over the next couple of years.

The other aspect is......follow the money. Who is going to provide these schemes and residential courses? Where is the money supposed to come from, and who is going to make a financial profit?