General Chat

Read in our local English language magazine yesterday that returning ex pats have to serve a "waiting period" in England before they become eligible for any kind of help, even if they are returning after only a few years abroad, having been born, lived ,worked & paid NI & income tax in the UK all their lives.
Why doesn´t this apply to foreign born immigrants who have never set foot in the UK before?
They seem to be entitled to everything the minute they arrive.

Is this part of IDS plan to thwart plans of Brussels to make European residents who want to come to Britain (Edit: not have to) go through same hoops as those from outside Europe:

"One thing that the arch Eurosceptic didn’t come back to power to do was buckle to diktats from the European Commission.

For the past two years, he has been fighting a battle with the bureaucrats in Brussels over the limitations this country places on citizens of other EU member states claiming benefits here.

"Ever since his department first received a legal letter from the Commission saying the UK must get rid of those restrictions, IDS has been smarting at this interference in Britain’s right to run its own welfare system.

And now Brussels, in an explosive move, has decided to take Britain to the European Court of Justice." (news - 1st June)

I thought that, if you left Britain, you kept your state pension - but frozen at point of leaving. This would make sense as the host country would be benefitting from your spending and should therefore take responsibility for your welfare. But I may be totally off the mark in our "lets subsidise the world" Britain we have now become.:-(

You are wrong John, pensions are only frozen in certain countries. We have had all increases since becoming pensioners. Remember we paid our NI all our working lives and live within the EU.

We are entitled to the same free medical benefits here as a Cypriot but the UK government pays the Cypriots back, which is what should be happening in reverse.

:-)

Sure this has only applied to a few countries (small countries like Malta and Cyprus who have been our allies in difficult times) and recently EU. Seem to remember in my young days that moving to another country meant you lost out on UK benefits.

It is clear that IDS wants to push back benefits for those who do not live in UK - including those who live in EU. I think he has a point. We paid NI to get benefits in UK, not outside UK. No one expected to get many if any benefits if they decided to live elsewhere in world.

You gain the hot weather and a better standard of living hopefully. You buy in to the health service and benefits and rules of host country unless you have private funds. Am sure that was the way when this was GREAT Britain.

Full pension plus increases applies to all countries in the EU and dozens of others including the USA for pensions as the UK has a reciprocal arrangement.

South Africa, Australia and Canada do not have this arrangement so that's when the pension increases are not given.

http://www.emigrationguide.com/content/emigration-claiming-your-uk-pension-abroad

''South Africa, Australia and Canada do not have this arrangement so that's when the pension increases are not given."

Tell me about it!

To add insult to (never increased £) injury, the banks deduct a handling fee each TIME for (every) international credit to one's account!

I agree that it is very unfair on people who retire outside the EU, but it doesn´t explain why Brits moving back to their home country are treated differently from other EU citizens who have no roots in the UK.
Incidentally, the State pension is an entitlement, not a benefit.

They are not, all EU citizens have to wait 6 months before they get any benefits in UK. It's the same here.

There are a lot of misconceptions propagated, sometimes intentionally, about the EU. In EU states you are all to be treated as the citizens of the country if you live there after the qualifying period.

Hence I have the same medical care as a Cypriot or if unemployed would be able to claim unemployment benefit after the required time.

It is illegal under EU law for any country to treat residents of another EU country differently to those residing in the host country.. Further that proviso starts from the second they set foot in another EU state, not after x weeks or months.

Further it is part of the EU law that EU law is superior to loacl law when there is a conflict.

If a benefit is contributory and has a qualifying period than so long as the qualification demands are the same for both citizens of the state and citizens if other EU states then that is ok.

Contributary benefits eg pensions are paid to UK pensioners whereever they live in the EU, that includes the winter heating allowance. For those who don't know Spain, Italy and Greece very well they are bloody cold in the winter - Spain and Italy both have serious skiing on offer!

The UK is very unusual in having a range of non-contributary benefits of which the most important are job seekers allowance, child benefit, housing benefit. It is not legal under EU law to impose different conditions for EU citizens claiming these benefits and EU citizens ( includiong UK citizens ) who have hitherto been residing in another EU state. Neither is it legal o have a qualifying period unless it applies to everybody, incomers or not.

Of course the could move the goal posts by demanding that all benefits would only be paid if sufficient contributions had been made into social and health funds - that is what happens in France. If UKGov did that then of course the shit would hat the fan in a big way.

The government is deluded in mixing up policy and law. Just because the policy changes it does not follow that the law will too, especially when it is a superior jurisdiction.

IDS is going to lose his case on this matter and UKGov will end up paying a considerable sum in back payments.
UKGov is also going to lose its case about a blanket ban on voting for prisoners.

The EU is one of those treaties where you cannot pick and choose, it does not offer EU a la carte. The other members feel that the UK already has a hatful of exceptions ( non-member of Schengen, non-member of Euro, farm payment rebate ) and any more are out of the question.

If and when there is a referendum on EU membership the choice will be either the EU as it is today or exit. Despite the antics of the affable but mad Nigel Farage my guess is that any referendum on EU membership will result in us staying in though without any great enthusiasm. Better the devil you know...

Cameron is fond of saying to Salmond that Scotland has no place to go outside of the Union. He is right. However exactly the same logic applies to the UK and the EU.

fwiw I has a set to with the DWP on just this matter ( the Habitual Residency Test ) when I returned from France. After building up a file 3 inches thick I won my case that the test was illegal under EU law and got my residence backdated 5 months. However the DWP refuses to apply precedent for the many such cases it loses on the rather dubious grounds that many people will either accept the original decision or give up after a bit. It has now withdrawn legal aid for such cases.

I don´t have any plans to move back to the UK at the moment, but who knows in the future.
I presume I would still get my pension as I do now, but would not be able to claim pension credits until I had been back 6 months.
Presumably I would be able to claim benefits which are not contribution based.
I remember having to jump through hoops when I first came to Spain & although I get all the same health care as Spaniards, my contributions were transferred from England to Spain.
Along with Spaniards, there are no non contributory benefits available to me. If I run out of money, tough!!!
Even more annoying is the fact that when my husband gets his pension he will lose 20% of it because we live in the Balearics, even though he has worked & contributed on the mainland. Once he recieves it here, it would not increase to the full amount, even if we moved back to the mainland.
Wonder what the EU make of that ruling.
Rollo, I agree that the winters here can be very cold & the problem is compounded by the fact that the houses are built to keep the heat out, not in, so are almost impossible to keep at a reasonable temperature during the winter months.