General Chat

In researching a distant relative I have found different sources give conflicting birth dates and place of birth for the same person.

A series of census entries shows birth date as 1853/4 and at the family residence in Canada. The information from the International Genealogical Index (IGI) shows DOB as 1847, and at a township several miles away. The parents remain consistent in both cases (The mother has a fairly distinctive first name)

Additionally , IGI shows a sibling, who doesn't appear on other records.

All very confusing; which should I believe? If any one has any thoughts on this I would be greatful to hear (see!) them.

Many thanks,

Martyn

Martyn,
is the IGI record submitted or extracted?

The extracted records are more reliable than the submitted ones.

Does the IGI record give an actual date of birth/baptism or just a year. If just a year, it is likely to be a guess.
Note: in my experience, if the submitter has a record of marriage but no date of birth, they tend to make the groom around four years older than the bride.

Have you checked for deaths of these boys?
Perhaps your distant reative was the second child of that name born to these parents, the first (and his unknown sibling) having died.

The township given as the place of birth could be the place of baptism (or marriage) instead of the actual place of birth. Or it could be the place where the birth was registered, which could still be different from the actual place of birth.

Good luck in your research,
Tess

Hello, Tess,

Many thanks for your reply.

Yes, both the IGI records were 'submitted' ones; I will duly take their information with a pinch of salt. All dates on them are unspecific and enclosed in chevron brackets. Funnily enough, the birth dates on the IGI records do have a three/four year difference between the husbands DOB and the wife's!

Not being Canadian, I do not know where the places of birth are in relation to each other, so I will stick with the information gleaned from the censuses - at least this is consistent!

Unfortunately I haven't found proper birth or death records, which would have truly helped.


Many thanks for your tips, I now know what to look out for in the future.

Kindest regards,

Martyn

You have Canadians at your disposal here, Martyn. Tell us the place names and we'll tell you where they are. ;)

Or you can just ask google maps!

We might also be able to tell you if there are any other records available that could help -- you'd be before Ontario birth records start, for example, but Ontario marriage records usually give an age and even a place of birth, and parents' names. They're at Ancestry.

Hello JaneyCanuk,

How do you fancy being my Canadian Ambassador? :-D

It's really nice to hear from my Canadian friend again.


As mentioned at the top of my thread, a birthdate and place of birth seem to be at variance with the census material I gleaned from ancestry.

The relative in question is Elizabeth Ann Greenaway, daughter of William John Greenaway (1801) and Mariah (nee Smith).

The census returns indicate a year of birth of 1853/4 and the family home at Mariposa, Victoria. IGI, however has year of birth as about 1849 and at Cambray, Grey, Ontario. All the other children were born at Mariposa, apparently.

I have found no birth record, It looks as though she married a William E Bond in Ontario about 1876 (IGI). I couldn't really judge from Google how far apart are Mariposa and Chambray, Grey; do you think you can help at all?

Many thanks for your assistance.

Kindest regards,

Martyn

Oh blast, I was trying to figure out where I knew you from, but I was in a bit of a rush. How embarrassing. ;)

Now it helps if you make up your mind -- Cambray? Chambray?

Cambray, Google maps tells me. Kawartha Lakes region, so we're near Mariposa ... Yes, we're just over 5 miles NNE of Mariposa. There's a scale in the lower left of any map you look at there.

Now Grey, though, is a place of another colour, at least the one I know is -- Grey County on the Bruce Peninsula, a good 100 miles west -- where *my* ancestors immigrated to. And Google Maps doesn't find me anything closer. So Cambray is definitely not in Grey County.

If this is coming from the IGI, I think you're dealing with a dolt. Like the one who submitted an ancestor of mine marrying his mother.

I know I recommended trying Ancestry for Ontario BMDs ...

The Ontario marriages database

http://search.ancestry.ca/search/db.aspx?dbid=7921

has no marriage for this couple. This could be because Ancestry has mistranscribed them so badly I'm not finding them.

However, the births database

http://search.ancestry.ca/search/db.aspx?dbid=8838

has numerous births. All I can see is the names, not the dates, but because I used the parents' names as the search criteria, it shows me those names: William Bond and Elizabeth Ann Greenaway. Ah, it may not have occurred to you that records that far back can be searched by both parents' names (in England, only after 1911, and only surnames). Yes, the Ontario registers include all kinds of info, and Ancestry has indexed it. The marriage registers, for instance, include parents' full names, place of birth, age, witnesses.

Luther Egerton Bond - Victoria County
Lulu Edna Bond - Simcoe County
Reta Velma Bond - Simcoe
Ila Band - Victoria
Maude Band - Victoria
Victor Percival Bond - Simcoe

The two counties are in the same area.

Obviously the two Bands there have been mistranscribed (father is named as William Band in the search results, but mother is still Elizabeth Ann Greenaway). The records themselves are often horribly illegible, and a lot of the time Ancestry hasn't even tried. Many of the Ontario BMD records at Ancestry are complete nonsense being passed off as transcriptions.

So .... now you can look for them all in the 1901 and 1911 censuses, free at

www.automatedgenealogy.com

and hopefully get some consistent date/place of birth info for Elizabeth.

Hello, JaneyCanuk,

Yes, this is me, the dyslexic 'dolt' - I like that word - who transcribed Cambray as Chambray! Sorry for the confusion; it should be the former, which, you say, is near Mariposa. That now makes more sense.

I did look up Cambray, Grey, Ontario on Google Maps, but I think I confused the poor thing, as it came back with a 'nil' response.

Many thanks for all the other information you supplied; your ability to find your way round the Canadian archives is truly impressive.

I haven't, as yet, checked out the website you suggested, but will do so during the coming week. It will be interesting to see what it turns up. There is also a potential additional sister - again no records other than IGI - which, hopefully, I will be able to check out, now.

I'll keep you posted.

Again, many thanks,

'That English dolt', Martyn

Hello JaneyCanuk,

What a cracker was that link you supplied!

First time I used it I found that William Greenaway's cousin and nephew were named on it - so yet another family line to investigate. It looks as though we are starting to take over Canada!

Additionally the Ancestry BMDs and censuses have confirmed that the IGI entry was indeed supplied by a 'dolt', as were the entries for a supposed 'sister', Mary Jane - the dates just didn't tie up at all. At least, as far as I know, I don't have a son marrying his mother!

All exciting stuff; as ever I will keep you posted.

Kindest regards,

Martyn