General Chat

And yet the cabin crew are taking strike action for more pay.

I really really don't understand the reasoning behind pricing themselves out of a job...

Or will the good old British taxpayer be expected to bail them out?? But then the cabin crew would be paying MORE in taxes... so their pay rise would be worthless.

I just don't understand, it saddens and infuriates me in equal measures, I think.

Love

Daff xxxx

What makes up these losses?

I understand that income must be more than outgoings to be in profit......is it that they dont make as much as they expected to make?
or do they OWE more than they receive.......?

how much of it is due to the ash cloud?
Bob

but yes methinks I agree that there WILL be customers that go elsewhere, and dont return to BA....

Terrible state,they have only reported,

1.7 billon in the bank aswell. as a privatised company.

I think its down to passenger loss,the ash fall hasnt been taken into account or so it reads.

I should imagine interest on 1.7 billion should cover a vast amount of pay rise.
a perk in a job doesnt go in the weekly cost of living coffers of crew workers.

Maybe people who fly in airplanes should be paying a price that reflects the cost ... including the cost of paying decent wages to the people who are on the planes not just to serve them beverages, but to protect their lives and safety ...

I'm sure everybody here knows exactly how much the average BA cabin crew member earns, and what the issues in the strike are, and what the history of labour relations and wage structures at BA is ...

No, actually I don't, as far as BA cabin crew are concerned, to be fair Janey, you are right... However, my sister-in-law works for a different airline, so I do have a rough idea of what they earn in general... not far short of what paramedics, firemen and nurses earn in this country. Also... BA cabin crew are the best paid of them all, so there you go!!

I haven't a clue what the issues around labour relations etc are... but I do know that their conditions are not horrendous, they have excellent time off in between shifts, depending on short/long haul etc etc, and many other benefits directly related to the number of hours they are expected to work/rest ... my SiL was trying for a number of years to get work with them!! So they are better than her working conditions, I know that, lolol

There are many, many people in occupations so poorly paid, with such dreadful working conditions, I would 100% support in a strike for a better deal. But BA cabin crew, I am afraid, don't fit into my scale right at the moment.

Maybe in a couple of years time, when I have had to stop tightening my belt, and robbing Peter to pay Paul etc etc, which is what we are most of us going to need to be doing in the next couple of years.

I did say I don't understand why..... and I don't. But I do know that for me, and the way I see it... there are others out there with a much harder time of it in comparison to the work they do saving lives and suchlike.

Love

Daff xxxx

My niece works at Heathrow for BA.She does long hauls and back to backs.She has had enough of all these strikes as well as she is also losing money not working.She gets excellent perks and is getting me a reduced ticket to Australia.If you could see all her photos of places she has gone you would be amazed.She has worked for them for 20 years Annie

I dunno, Daff. There are a lot of people making a lot more money in the UK and everywhere else, for a lot less work than BA cabin crew. Why people feel compelled to scapegoat ordinary working people for economic problems, I dunno. How about taking a look at the huge profits made by those who sell basic necessaries of life, like food? They can raise their prices on a whim -- no need for them to bargain collectively with their customers, and go on strike if they don't get the prices they want ...

Grannie of 10, your daughter, with 20 years' seniority, is in a very different position from most cabin crew. How nice that she is content and not concerned about those in a considerably different position.

I know. It's heartbreaking seeing them turn up for work in old rags with bits of cloth tied round their feet instead of stillettos. I really hated seeing them whipped onto the aircraft then made to work 23 hours a day. Some of them have to get up before they go to bed.

I know, turn them back to a state owned airline and give them all little farms to live off in their spare time, then share the profits amongst the proletariat so that they can buy food from the government for their children. And make a minimum wage. Oh, we have that already - it's about a quarter of what BA cabin crew get. Scrub that idea.

That I understand, and know... and of course that needs to be addressed.... it does look as though some of it is being addressed in small steps as I type by this new government..... and even more could and should be done. And yes, it really gets on my nerves that the big food chains hold and wield (ei ie, brain not working) so much power and control over us... but many ordinary folk are now beginning to grow their own, and/or turn back to the small grocer, or farm shops. Acorns, lots of little acorns.

The power is always in the hands of a few... but the *ordinary person* slowly, with each swing of that pendulum, gets more control over their own lives. Well, not under labour, they didn't.... local authorities using anti terrorist laws to terrorise householders into using the correct bins, etc.... lolol... let's see what this government has to offer us, all of us, including BA staff..... then might be the time to strike.

Not now... it just does not *feel* right to me.

Love

Daff xxxx

Oh, Eldrick, I do so appreciate your attentions. It's rather like being followed around by a little boy with a toad up his sleeve.

Some people make about a quarter of what BA cabin crew get, you say.

And some people make about 100 or 1000 times what BA cabin crew get, I say.

In the first case, the two groups probably work about as much and as hard.

In the second case, many don't actually work at all.

Let's bring in collective bargaining for *all* prices, eh?

Collective bargaining for farm workers and BA cabin crew ... and the owners of grocery stores. Let the sellers of goods and services justify their prices to consumers, just as the sellers of labour evidently have to do. Howzat for fairness then?

Oh, Daff. You really think England is going to become an agrarian society again?

Well ... if the race to the bottom is won by the bosses, it may have to. Nobody will be able to afford to buy goods that anybody else makes or services anybody else provides ...

Can someone kindly remind me the exact reasons why BA are striking? Thanks

I didnt say any of those things you allege. Read again my learned friend :-)

I fear you have grasped the wrong end of the stick. Again.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I'm not following you around, no matter how much it may please you to think so. I respond to posts that amuse me. Just so happens yours come near the top of that list :-)

And it's not a toad up my sleeve - oh, little is never a description that has been applied to me either, lol.

What is at the heart of the dispute? (web page last updated Fri 21 May 2010)

In November, BA reduced the number of cabin crew on long-haul flights from 15 to 14 and introduced a two-year pay freeze from 2010.

The Unite union said this would hit passenger service, as well as the earnings and career prospects of cabin crew.

The airline also proposed new contracts for fresh recruits and newly promoted staff. These included a single on-board management grade, no seniority, promotion on merit, and pay set at market rate plus 10%.

This would still see new recruits paid significantly less than current staff.

According to a 2009 survey for the Civil Aviation Authority, BA's cabin crew are well paid in industry terms with average earnings of £29,900 a year, including bonuses and allowances, compared with £14,400 at Virgin Atlantic.

Unite now says it has reached an agreement in principle with the airline on the changes, but the stumbling blocks are travel concessions and disciplinary action.

When cabin crew last went on strike in March, the airline said that staff who took part in the strike would lose their travel perks permanently, including no longer getting the right to buy heavily discounted tickets.

The union is fighting for the restoration of these perks and has also condemned the airline for disciplinary action being taken against more than 50 union members.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8413529.stm

There is more, but the above seems to be the basis of the current dispute.

No, of course I don't, Janey... but we all lost a bit of that *make do and mend* spirit that we were very good at in austerity... and I am not in England, by the way, lol!! It might be good for us to learn not to be so wasteful, lol

Wages here in Newport (remember the Chartist movement? John Frost is a rellie) are poor, job opportunities even poorer.......

Benefits gives people more disposable income than minimum wage, so many don't work/ won't work as a result.... but people coming into the country put up with that, and work very hard indeed for those pee-poor minimum wages. Our care homes, nursing homes, domicilliary services... all would collapse without the input form people from the new EU countries. Our Health service would collapse without input form immigrants form all over the world... and I might have popped my cloggs without them as well, lol

But change has to start somewhere.... dripping tap syndrome.

Just thought you might like to see this....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235521/British-Airways-Christmas-strike-One-million-passengers-face-travel-disruption..
The majority of BA's 13,000 cabin crew, who already earn twice as much as their rivals at Virgin Atlantic.
Cabin service directors at the airline earn £56,000-a-year long haul and £52,000 short haul - the highest pay for those jobs in Britain.
The lowest paid cabin staff earn £36,000-a-year long haul and £32,000 on short haul.
By comparison, easyJet's average crew wage is £20,200 and Virgin Atlantic's just £14,400.

So.... my sister, a nurse with almost 30 years experience on acute medical wards.... earns less than the newest member of BA cabin crew?

Eldrick, I would never dream of calling you little.... or a toad..... lol

SRS, I think it is partly to do with reducing the numbers of flight attendants on board, although I am sure there is more to it than that.

Love

Daff xxxxx

Thank you, DET...... I thought there was more to it than that!

Love

Daff xxxx

Thanks DET. So it's not just pay. I did wonder if there was more to it than pay. In my opinion BA itself to save the company should have given in a bit more re the perks and the disciplinary action (depending on what the disciplinary issues were)