General Chat

Animals in general don't have a concept of privacy. Except cats and my little dog who glares if she is watched performing her daily ablutions. Animals in the wild mate, do their toilet and eat out in the open. The only precautions they take is for their safety. Mums aren't annoyed about the lack of privacy when feeding or caring for their young - they get aggressive because they are protecting their young.

With regards to one animal tracking down and eating another - well we do worse things to each other than that. At least with animals it's a survival thing. With humans it can be sheer evil.

Sue

Therein is exactly the rub -- animals are incapable of *exercising rights*, in the sense in which we understand that.

If a rabbit has a right to life, what happens when a bear decides to eat it? Is the bear violating a rule about the rabbit's right to life? Should the bear be punished? Can the rabbit's family claim damages?

Animals don't know from rights. They know from hungry, and in danger. Rights are a peculiar concept we invented for us, not for animals. They apply between "me" and "you" on the one hand and "us" on the other. They define who/what we are, and give us a consensual code for how to treat one another. Animals don't live by codes.

We consider that we have a right to privacy, an odd sort of right -- it's not like the right to life or the right to liberty, which protect the things that are kind of the essence of us.

If somebody secretly films us doing private things, it doesn't hurt us. But it distresses us if we find out about it -- and it distresses us if we think we have to worry about it happening (like people putting hidden cameras in public toilets and dressing rooms, for instance).

Animals will never find out they've been secretly filmed. They may worry about it, in their own animal way, if they actually find a camera crew in their secret place some day and then spend the rest of their lives feeling like they have to look out for camera crews when they want privacy -- but then it wouldn't be secret filming in the first place. ;)

Well perhaps before an animal is filmed a guardian should be appointed who will act in the best interests of the animal. This guardian will have the power to veto the filming of sensitive issues regarding said animal and will also be able to sign a consent form. No more watching animals mate and definately no violent acts to be filmed.

Yes - I'm talking tongue in cheek. I believe we should be protecting animals but this is surely going too far.

Sue xx

Oh good, more grist for the procrastination mill. ;)

I feel quite strongly about the inappropriateness of talking about animals having "rights". It undermines the entire concept of rights to do that.

I do think that we have responsibilities to animals based on our own nature and our own moral concerns. I'm not sure that "invading their privacy" falls into the class of things we ought not do to animals! If some harm to the animals could be demonstrated, then hm, should be considered.

I know I've had cats that quite obviously had some sort of reaction to being caught out doing something stupid, or "private". And of course there's the whole catbox thing, they don't like being watched. But if they don't know?

One of our three cats who died in rapid succession last summer had a lifelong habit of what we called her calesthenics, when she wouldn't go out on winter days. Sitting downstairs, we would hear her galloping from one end of the second-floor hall to the other, over and over. If you tried to sneak up the stairs and peek through the bannister, you'd find her staring back at you like you were the one behaving very oddly. In a dozen years, we never once caught her in the act. I guess it's like how we women of a certain age and size prefer to join fitness classes not inhabited by nubile young men. ;)

There, it's my thread, I can go off on a tangent if I like.

I do think it's an interesting subject of discussion -- animal privacy -- if you want to have a go!

I think I've become a little addicted to the Eagle Cam, they're such majestic creatures.

I've even started to revisit the pandacam at San Diago zoo.

I would be interested on your perspective on the article Janey, (well there have been other articles on it this week stemming from the same source), I just chose the BBC one to copy.

I haven't had time to fully digest this article yet from Science Daily which looks as though it's exploring the topic in more detail:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100429092934.htm

Well there's a drag, for Sutton. I think the Hornby Island one said something about a raven getting a chick one time?

I actually can't see these things myself -- don't have the latest Flash and refuse to get it. ;)

SRS, I shall take a look at that with interest. Seriously!

Interesting to see the Eagle at Hornby Island. :)

I was reading an article this week about animals and their rights to privacy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/10093327.stm

does the US write its dates as 05/04/2010 ie May 4th 2010?
if so........
it seems that something has " Taken" the babies from the Sutton nest.....

Bob

Been watching the Hornby Isle cam for a while as my friend in BC sent me the addy for it.

1 grey ball of feathers at the moment.

Heh, yes, I realized I'd posted it at a silly time of day (er, night) for watchers over there, so here's a bump.

Thanks Bob!

And fingers crossed for eaglets (and camera) this time.

I didn't realize eagles lived (and bred) to that age!

I presume it's dark there at the moment lol

heres another cam site, Janey.......

http://www.suttoncenter.org/pages/live_eagle_camera



fascinating stuff watching em hatch an fledge!


Bob

So many critters having babies this time of year - here's another one to watch.

http://www.hornbyisland.net/eagles.html

Three years ago millions watched the Hornby Island Eagles lay two eggs - but neither egg hatched. The next year the eagles laid another two eggs that hatched and fledged – “Thunder” and “Lightning”. However, nobody got to see them because the winter storms had knocked out the cameras.

This year the eagles are back to their nest again and the cameras are working. The eagles are adding more branches, greenery and grass to the nest in preparation for egg laying, normally occurring in the last week of March.

This is their 20th year of nesting. They have produced 17 eaglets to date. Assuming they were 6 years of age before their first year of nesting, they are now 26 years of age. The oldest recorded age for eagles in the wild is 30 years.

http://www.hornbyeagles.com/index.htm

The webcam link:

http://www.hornbyeagles.com/webcam.htm


They were on TV this morning - one chick hatched and being fed, one more egg waiting to hatch.

Remember time differences - it's just after 5:30 pm in British Columbia at the moment (i.e. 8 hours behind UK time).