General Chat

And No.1 is back from hospital to take over the cat farming, which I was doing a bad job at in his absence, and I have to finish the job that was due in April ...

Cat at least the Bull run the bulls get a chance to fight back :-)

Taking mine out also .......wonders if there is a fight pit for them !!

"Well, I guess the UK has banned the import of continental European veal.

And of course foie gras.

And no European would ever think of giving financial support to the bullfighting industry, or participating in the traditional bull run ..."

Maybe these are next on the list of those who have been working on getting seal culling banned.

Not ignoring anyone if they want to answer me but I've got to take Panda for a walk before she chews my chair leg completely ;-)

by the way although I live in Spain I DO NOT agree to bullfighting never have really before I moved here.

I do not eat foie gras ( gross) nor do I eat veal. suckiling pig etc.

Yes I am a token objector but better token than a killer

Janey I said that it was a 'European' ban decided by European parliament ... I neither said I approved nor disapproved..it was a decision made by an elected parliament...just as decisions are made by the UK parliament that I and a good proportion of the electorate might disapprove of.....


and incidentally...no one has asked me if I want to be 'part of Europe' so I can't actually say I class myself as a European, except geographically... I disapprove of a lot of EU laws and regulations ...but there you go.

Janey I would not ever try to change the culture of a nation. I believe that the Inuits have a right to hunt .

33days old so young but I suppose so old in their lifes.

At the moment Janey I draw no conclusions... my instincts at the moment are to take a human being , hang draw and quarter them oin full public view and feed the entrails to hyenas.... but hey , I never said I was perfect :)

btw no Britain has not banned foie gras....though I believe there is a push for it, and also an available 'alternative' made in uk ...and in my personal opinion any one who goes to a bullfight/ bullrun can damn well get gored :) can I nominate someone?

And Rose, if one's opinions are based on "humanity", one really wouldn't make a big noise about how one's own political community can do what it likes and everybody else can jump in a lake, which is pretty much what you did say.

I think "hypocrisy" was the word I was getting at. On the part of those who govern the EU.

Maybe "opportunism" would be a better word. EU Parliament elections coming up ...

absolutely Janey...I do not condone abuse / cruelty in ANY country or continent or economic community whether I live in it or not!

ref "bullfights, bull runs, inhumane treatment of veal calves, inhumane treatment of foie gras geese, inhumane hunting practices ...

Oops. Those are all things that Europeans do. And that bear considerably more resemblance to the mixed bag in your list than the seal hunt does!" NB SOME Europeans

and all of the above I have campaigned against ( albeit in a small way in the grand scheme of things) at one time or another over the last 30 years, seen some improvements in certain areas...and none in others...

Gt Britain as we all know ( irony) is a 'nation of animal lovers' ...and if one believes that one will believe anything! So I don't hold up GB or Europe as an example to the world , heaven forfend...my opinions are not based on being british or European...they are based on my ....? humanity? not sure that is the right word...I would put 'soul' but that might be too airy fairy sounding.....

But of course the question remains:

What similarity would you be advancing, Rose, between the seal hunt and inhumane veal calf rearing practices?

How do you differentiate between the seal hunt and the practices followed in commercial abattoirs?

Has Europe banned all meat and fur imports yet?

Well, I guess the UK has banned the import of continental European veal.

And of course foie gras.

And no European would ever think of giving financial support to the bullfighting industry, or participating in the traditional bull run ...

Uzzi, the thing is, you made a statement in a discussion of a controversial subject that was not ... um ... correct, accurate ... true.

It doesn't matter if people choose to base their own opinions on things that aren't true.

But it does matter when people say such things in public where they are trying to persuade someone else to their opinion, or where what they say could have an effect on someone else's opinion, and thus on someone else's life, in this case the Inuit -- and other economically precarious communities that depend on the seal hunt.

I hope you have read those facts now.

The seals hunted are not newborn. They are about 33 days old, and they have been independent of, and completely ignored by, their mothers for at least half that time.

For ref (BBC )
"White veal is no longer produced in the UK, where animal welfare standards for veal are much higher than those required by European legislation."

Re 'white' veal

White veal, which is not produced in the UK, has been rightly branded as cruel. The calf is confined to a crate to restrict its movement and atrophy the muscles. This, combined with a liquid diet low in iron and roughage, makes the meat tender and anaemically pale. In the UK, where welfare standards are higher, crating has been illegal since 1990.

Although crates were banned throughout Europe in 2007, slatted floors, which make it difficult for the calves to stand up, are still allowed and the space allowance per animal remains relatively small. The dietary fibre in their diet is still less than the UK minimum requirement.

British rosé veal
British veal produced to the highest welfare standards has pink, not white, flesh and is tender and delicately flavoured. Called 'rosé veal' it is the meat for the conscientious carnivore.

"anymore than I am precluded from having an opinion on other country's decisions to allow seal hunts, whaling, bear farms, imprisonment without trial, exploitation of child workers etc etc ...."

... bullfights, bull runs, inhumane treatment of veal calves, inhumane treatment of foie gras geese, inhumane hunting practices ...

Oops. Those are all things that Europeans do. And that bear considerably more resemblance to the mixed bag in your list than the seal hunt does!

Sorry Uzzi just seen your post. The Inuits are in the Artic regions of Canada and Alaska so not part of the EU. There are some in Greenland too which is geographically a part of the continent of North America but politically associated with Europe, specifically Denmark. (Wikipedia).

No doubt I'll get corrected if this is wrong.

Like Rose said if you ban something it will have an effect on some group or other whatever it is that is banned.

No Janey I did not read that thread, do I read the "facts" of what I am talking about. To an extent I do but I am sorry if I do not trawl bookstalls or if what I see/believe is wrong. I do try to keep up with news and most people will nicely put me right if I am wrong.

Note the word NICELY.

no it doesn't Janey :) anymore than I am precluded from having an opinion on other country's decisions to allow seal hunts, whaling, bear farms, imprisonment without trial, exploitation of child workers etc etc ....

BUT in forming my opinions on all of the above, I always look at as many facets of the argument as possible. It is not that I ignore the effects on the people who live in these places... for eg a recent program on tv here showed the conditions of workers in the tuna industry... hard as those conditions were without that industry where would they be? saying 'stop buying tuna ' would have been the simplistic argument...so would 'carry on buying tuna just like you do now' .....
:))

Janey so easy to respond to one and be accused of respondinding elsewhere and no I don't quote either usually
quote"
Just like some people don't give a flying * about children who die in the civil wars waged over diamonds in Africa.
"
I will be honest on this that I have never thought about the diamond wars, even though I have read about them.

"the hunters who Cull for profit at birthing"

When oh when is Europe going to ban the sale of veal?

Uzzi, did you actually read any of the *facts* of what you're talking about?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1150922&px=2

My post at 18:19.

It isn't really right to spread disinformation. No seals are culled "at birthing".