General Chat

CMD ..LOL, an you always come across em on a Friday tea time when your on the way home ...Dorothy , there has to be a way to implement this... if they can spend all that money on checking tax discs , your sugestion may well be the answer . Sue .. yes there should be a restriction on cc of cars for new drivers ... this could save a lot of lives ..
Kim xx

News from 1998 ... kinda old ...

http://www.releases.gov.nl.ca/releases/1998/gsl/0603n03.htm

(If you're comparing to home, Ontario has a population of about 10 million)

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An interim Ontario report shows that collisions by novice drivers were down by a dramatic 31 per cent. By contrast, only a four per cent drop was observed for Ontario's general driving population over the same period.

From Ontario's perspective, graduated licencing has meant 900 fewer visits to hospital emergency rooms; 2,000 fewer days in hospital for collision victims; 800 fewer ambulance calls; and, 13,000 fewer hours of police time required to investigate collisions.

The Ontario government estimates that $34 million has been saved as a result of reductions in emergency room visits; hospital days; ambulance calls; police time; and, property damage to motor vehicles.

I would like to quote from the select committee's report: "New drivers, regardless of age, are significantly over represented in motor vehicle accidents. Teenage drivers, in particular, are involved in a disproportionately high number of crashes as compared to other age groups. Furthermore, the level of damage resulting from these accidents tends to be much more severe than the average. As well, statistics show that older drivers who are newly-licensed are also in a high collision risk category. Inexperience, combined with risk-taking behaviour, contribute to high accident rates. Graduated licencing is a solution to this problem."

Thank you Kathryn,
there is a lot to digest, but skimming through it it looks a worthwhile law.....
anything that saves a life...

Tell me?
when any of these laws have been broken, are the penalties 'stiff'.....or do they get a little smack on the wrist, like they do here.......
regards cmd

Thanks Kathryn , I think it,s time this was implemented in the UK ...Being thick here but can I ask , we have provisional licences .. ie learners .. and full licences .. ie passed their driving test . Is this the same as G1 and G2 ??
Kim

Kim -- It looks like the G1 is what used to be the learner's -- for instance:

"be accompanied by a fully licensed driver, who has at least four years driving experience, and a blood alcohol level of less than .05 per cent, in case he/she needs to take over the wheel;"

-- having another driver in the car is one of the learner's restrictions I remember. The G1 has more restrictions than the learner's used to though -- like the zero alcohol requirement and no driving after midnight or on 4-lane highways and so on.

It seems kind of odd that the G2 has restrictions on young passengers and the G1 doesn't. Not sure about that.

The G2 is the innovation -- in between learner's and unrestricted.

I did it a long time ago, before all this. Mind you, I was 29 even then. Never really wanted to drive, but I was tired of stores that wouldn't take my cheques! (Way back a long time before debit cards.) Was a barrister & solicitor, but couldn't drive, so I just wasn't trustworthy. ;)

cmd -- I don't know! I think it's probably like most driving offences -- basically you can drive as dangerously as you like and break as many rules as you like, and charges only get laid if you get caught, which is usually only when there's a crash.

But a lot of people do tend to obey laws just because they're there. And then there would be parents who would do some enforcing too.


Now if anybody can figure out what to do about street racers ... they kill about as many people in Toronto these days as gangbangers with guns do ...

Unfortunately, these are both groups that aren't easily deterred by threats of long prison sentences.

Somebody who's street racing is already not the kind of person who thinks about risks and consequences too much!

Thanks Kathryn,
and Thanks for the thread Newby,
I have enjoyed hearing your views,
however bed calls me, and its work in the morning...
I have had a stressful day today, and I am knackered.
might not be on again till monday, or in week
godbless, goodnight,
mind the bed bugs dont bite...
cmd xx

Nite CMD , it was a good thread wasn,t it ? ... thanks to the people who contributed...
Kathryn ... you have given me a lot of info on how your country deals with this issue and some valuable guidelines to suggest over here
Thank you for replying to my thread..
Nite all ...TC
Kim xxx

· After the first six months, and until the G2 driver earns a full G licence or turns 20, they can carry only three passengers aged 19 or under.
question.........supposing the passengers,tobe are aged over 19?
how does that apply?

As I understand it, the restriction is on passengers under 19.

I believe the whole system was put together based on risk factors.

The crashes that young/new drivers are involved in occur disproportionately:

- after midnight
- when alcohol is involved
- when there are numerous young passengers

The carload of teenagers driving after dark when there's been drinking.

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>>> Initially, G2 drivers 19 or under can carry only one passenger aged 19 or under (after midnight)

After the first six months, and until the G2 driver earns a full G licence or turns 20, they can carry only three passengers aged 19 or under (after midnight)

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Keep in mind that this is *after* the G1/learner's permit, which lasts at least 12 months, before doing the road test (8 months if they take an approved course). After the road test, you are still G2 for another 12 months.

A G1 / learner is subject to these restrictions, which I think are more stringent than in England:

· maintain a zero blood alcohol level while driving;

· be accompanied by a fully licensed driver, who has at least four years driving experience, and a blood alcohol level of less than .05 per cent, in case he/she needs to take over the wheel;

· ensure the accompanying driver is the only other person in the front seat;

· ensure the number of passengers in the vehicle is limited to the number of working seat belts;

· refrain from driving on Ontario's "400-series" highways or on high speed expressways such as the Queen Elizabeth Way, Don Valley Parkway, Gardiner Expressway, E.C. Row Expressway and the Conestoga Parkway;

· refrain from driving between midnight and 5:00 a.m.

Interesting, Chris. It's nearly 15 years it's been going here in Ontario, and back in 1998 that news release said it was in 31 of 50 US states.

Aren't you English supposed to be the finger waggers and rule-lovers?? ;)

A little googling ... this looks interesting (I just googled for *graduated licensing uk* and this was top of the results):

http://www.brake.org.uk/index.php?p=842

It lists the arguments, and some of the places where it's in effect ... nowhere in Canada ... nobody in England ever remembers Canada ...

Aha! This news article describes the Ontario system!

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/wastedlives/display.var.
2204609.0.young_drivers_why_graduated_licences_can_save_lives.php

That article actually seems to be from just yesterday!

Maybe the movement is gathering steam.

Just a bit from that news article:

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The Lancashire Telegraph's Wasted Lives campaign, aimed at cutting the carnage on our roads that is caused by young drivers, is calling for the introduction of a graduated licence system in the UK.
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The idea is backed by road safety charity Brake, as well as the government's Transport Select Committee.

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Also:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/686044.stm

Another good article -- just finding this stuff because I'm terminally curious, and sticking it here for you guys who might want to know.

http://www.pcs.org.uk/templates/internal.asp?NodeID=912277

The Public and Commercial Services Union is behind the campaign for graduated licensing:

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PCS is proposing the introduction of Graduated Licensing whereby young and new drivers have to show that they have acquired the necessary skills before they can have full use of the road at all times of the night and the day.

It is a system for phasing in on-road driving, allowing beginners to get their initial experience under conditions that involve lower risk and introducing them in stages to more complex driving situations.

Essentially an apprentice system, graduated licensing involves three stages. The first is a supervised learner's period, then an intermediate licensing phase that permits unsupervised driving only in certain situations, and finally a full-privilege license when the conditions of the first two stages have been met.

A graduated system is designed to address driving inexperience, so there is some justification for applying it to beginners of all ages. This is the approach taken in Canada, where many new drivers are older than in the UK.

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And about the enforcement part, looks like I was on the money. ;)

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PCS believes that requiring new drivers to pass a further on-road test that is more difficult than the initial on-road licensing test in order to graduate to full-privilege driving could motivate beginners to develop their skills and weed out drivers who have not practised enough to become proficient. Such tests have been introduced in Ontario and British Columbia.

UK Ministers have questioned the ability to enforce GL provisions, however the American experience shows that in practice, they are largely self-enforcing, with parents playing a major role. In addition, drivers are penalised if they do not comply with driving restrictions or who are involved in traffic violations or at-fault crashes.

Almost all jurisdictions delay or prohibit graduation from the system if there is evidence of a poor driving record. In Nova Scotia, for example, sufficient violations incurred during the two-year intermediate stage start the clock over so that drivers with such records who entered the system at age 16 could remain under a night driving restriction until well beyond age 18. The threat of such a penalty can provide strong motivation for safe driving.

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I have to respond to an earlier post when a member complains of drivers doing just 45 mph on a 60 mph road. May I remind them that the 60 mph is the MAXIMUN speed that can be driven on the road, not the obligitory speed drivers must maintain. Why shouldnt someone cruise along a road at 45 mph or less and enjoy the views etc?

What I can never understand is why they allow cars to be built that can do speeds of 80-140+ mph - when the maximum allowed is 70 mph?

The majority of the time there is no actual need to drive very fast - it's because people like to do it.