Genealogy Chat

Have got stuck with my tree, I have John Hoult born 1778 in Mitton, Worcestershire, a marraige of John Hoult to Elizabeth Brown in Mitton 1800 and John Hoult to Elizabeth Stringer in 1805 also Mitton, but for the life of me I cannot determine for sure which family belongs in my tree, any ideas on this please.
Dave

It's always possible that both marriages are for your John ,if the first Elizabeth died.

How have you worked back to him?
Who were his children?


For our reference - is this your John in 1841 ?

I suppose it must be - this is the only John/Elizabeth Hoult couple in the censuses in Mitton/Wolverley area.

John Hoult
in the 1841 England Census
Name: John Hoult
Age: 65
Estimated birth year: abt 1776
Gender: Male
Where born: Worcestershire, England
Civil Parish: Wolverley
Hundred: Oswaldslow (Lower Division)
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Kidderminster
Sub-registration district: Wolverley
Neighbors:
Piece: 1203
Book: 7
Folio: 9
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
John Hoult 65
Elizabeth Hoult 60
George Hoult 31
Eliza Hoult 17


According to 1841, 1851, 1861 census, Elizabeth was born in 1781, in either Mitton or Wolverley .

Wolverley and Mitton are about 5 miles apart.
Wolverley is about 1 mile north of Kidderminster, and Mitton is nowadays part of Stourport on Severn, south of Kidderminster.

Not that that really helps!
In all three censuses, the family are living in the parish of Wolverley.

could first elizabeth died and he married again

Already suggested that, Malyon.

However, I don't see her death 1800-1805.

Elizabeth Brown's father's name was James - if that's any sort of clue !

Name: John Hoult
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 6 Oct 1800
Event Place: Worcestershire, England, United Kingdom
Gender: Male
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Brown
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Father's Name: James Brown

A tree on Ancestry says Elizabeth Stringer was born c1785.

However, grounds for that assumption seem to be her supposed death in Norfolk (which seems unlikely) in 1816, which isn't possible if she's the Elizabeth with John in the censuses above.

Perhaps this is the death they mean:

Name: Elizabeth Hoult
Gender: Female
Burial Date: 05 Oct 1816
Burial Place: Parish Of Chapelry Of Mitton, Worcester Co., England
Age: 35
Birth Date: 1781

But if so -
a) she's not born 1785.
b) she's not the Elizabeth in the censuses.


The tree goes on to claim that she and John had sons John, 1805 Lower Mitton, and Joseph, 1807 in Birmingham.

This is said to be Joseph in 1841 :

Joseph Hoult
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Joseph Hoult
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1807
Gender: Male
Where born: Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: St Martin
Hundred: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St Martin
Neighbors:
Piece: 1142
Book: 5
Folio: 30
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Hoult 34
Rhoda Hoult 30
Elizabeth Hoult 10
Joseph Hoult 8
Samuel Hoult 6
Mary Hoult 2

and his marriage:
Joseph Hoult
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Joseph Hoult
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 2 May 1830
Marriage Place: Kidderminster, Worcester, England
Spouse: Rhoda Dickins
FHL Film Number: 350509




John Hoult and Elizabeth Stringer may well have had a son Joseph, but it appears he died in 1829, so can't be the Joseph above:

Name: Joseph Stringer Hoult
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 23 Jan 1829
Burial Place: Lower Mitton, Worcester, England

Isn't it unusual to find a fathers name on a marriage - was this from FMP, familysearch does not give a fathers name for either of the suggested marriages?

But NO - Joseph Stringer Hoult wasn't John and Elizabeth Stringer's son!

Joseph Stringer Hoult
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Joseph Stringer Hoult
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 20 Aug 1828
Baptism Place: Lower Mitton, Worcester, England
Father: John Hoult
Mother: Hannah <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
FHL Film Number: 350501


That John appears to have been born c1805, and he and Hannah are together in Stourport in 1851 and 1861.

The Brown/Hoult marriage was from FS, Flip.


That John's father's name was Thomas - do you know your John's father's name, David?


Name: John Hoult
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 6 Oct 1800
Event Place: Worcestershire, England, United Kingdom
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Father's Name: Thomas Hoult
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Brown
Spouse's Gender: Female


EDIT:

Well, maybe it's not the same marriage as the Mitton one ??? Date one day out ??

Name: John Hoult
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Brown
Event Date: 07 Oct 1800
Event Place: Lower Mitton, Pedmore, Worcester, England

????????
1851
Kinfare Row, Wolverley, Kidderminster, Worcestershire, England
John Hoult Head Married Male 75 1776 Forgeman Mitton, Worcestershire, England
Elizabeth Hoult Wife Married Female 70 1781 - Mitton, Worcestershire, England
Jane Hoult Daughter Unmarried Female 32 1819 Washerwoman Wolverley, Worcestershire, England
Edward Beck Lodger Married Male 39 1812 Forgeman Wolverley, Worcestershire, England

1861
Kniver Row, Wolverley, Kidderminster, Worcestershire, England
Elizabeth Hoult Head Widow Female 80 1781 Forgemans Widow Wolverley, Worcestershire, England
Jane Hoult Daughter Unmarried Female 42 1819 Laundress Wolverley, Worcestershire, England

Thanks for all the replies.
Firstly all my research is at Worcester record office through parish records.
There was an Elizabeth Hoult died 1816, aged 35, but due to birthdays both Elizabeth Stringer and Brown could be either of them.
The Hoult's did settle in Cookley/Wolverley.
No mention in the marraiges of widow or widower.
Pretty sure John's father is also John.
13 children born to John & Elizabeth Hoult from 1801 to 1824.
They didn't have a son called Joseph.
Yes that is the family in the 1841 census.
Blown away by the amount of replies already, thank you.

P.S

In the parish records it actually states that Elizabeth Brown's father was named James,

My thoughts are that perhaps there was another John Hoult from Mitton but wasn't baptised, hence no record of his birth.
It is said that up to 10% of births before 1837 were never recorded.

I would just like to know with some certainty which Elizabeth John Hoult married, I have been doing my tree on and off now for 30-40 years and as I don't think I can be certain what happened, I'm thinking perhaps it's time to knock this piece of my tree on the head.

??????

Elizabeth Brown
Residence Place:
Worcester, England
Gender:
Female
Christening Date:
22 Dec 1782
Christening Date (Original):
22 Dec 1782
Christening Place:
Ombersley, Worcester, England
Father's Name:
James Brown
Mother's Name:
Mary

Elizabeth Stringer
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:
19 June 1785
ROCK,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
Mother:
Mary Stringer


Elizabeth Stringer
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:
4 June 1780
CHADDESLEY CORBETT,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
Father:
Thos Stringer
Mother:
Mary

The marraige of John Hoult and Elizabeth Stringer states they are both of Mitton, and this ties in perfectly,
Elizabeth Stringer b 17/06/1781, daughter of John & Elizabeth.