Genealogy Chat

I feel like Victor Meldrew - I don't believe it! :-0 :-0 :-0

One line of my family came from Northern Ireland and I have been unable to get further back than the 1881 census, when they were in England.

Now that the NI Record Office has put the Catholic Parish Registers on line, free, I have spent days happily trawling through them looking for BMDs.

I have discovered that my great-grandfather was married twice, and under the marriage details with his first wife it says that the couple are related in the 3rd degree of consanginity and a special dispensation was required.

I assumed this meant they were cousins, but googled it anyway to confirm.

Shock/Horror - they were either great grandparent/great grandchild or aunt/uncle and nephew/niece!!

The former is not possible because they were of similar ages, and the latter I thought was illegal.

I have read everything I can find on the subject for all Christian denominations and all are agreed that the closest relationship that can marry is the 4th degree of consanguinity ie 1st cousins, and even that hasn't always been allowed.

I went back and re-read the entry, but although some of it is difficult to decipher, the "3rd" is perfectly clear. I can only conclude that the parish priest got his degrees mixed up!! :-S :-S

http://www.islandregister.com/consanguinity.html

Relationships, through either blood (consanguinity) or marriage (affinity) were recorded, and marriage dispensations were granted, by "degree". A first degree relationship would indicate siblings; a second degree relationship would indicate first cousins; third degree meant second cousins; and fourth degree indicated third cousins. Relationships more distant than third cousins (fourth degree) were not recorded in the marriage records.

That sounds better, but it obviously depends which website you read! :-)

Roman civil law prohibited marriages within four degrees of consanguinity.[2] This was calculated by counting up from one prospective partner to the common ancestor, then down to the other prospective partner.[3] The first prohibited degree of consanguinity was a parent-child relationship while a second degree would be a sibling relationship. A third degree would be an uncle/aunt with a niece/nephew while fourth degree was between first cousins.[3] Any prospective marriage partner with a blood relationship outside these prohibited degrees was considered acceptable.

I find this subject very confusing too. My parents are related, first cousins once removed. My 2 grandmas were aunt and niece, of much the same age. But it doesn't stop there, there are other marriages between family members going back.

I tried to read up about it, but the script led onto breedng horses and dogs, so I gave up!

Scottish records simply note that a bride and groom were cousins but I doubt if any further investigation was undertaken

I have a marriage from 1878 where it's noted that the couple were "cousins"
Their familial connection was actually a bit closer...
Their fathers were brothers AND their mothers were also sisters.

They shared both sets of grandparents !!

At one time the church prohibited marriages within seven degrees of consanguity.

People must have had to have fairly detailed family trees to be sure they were OK to marry.

Bumping this

Thanks Granny