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Thomas Henry Wiseman was missing in action in World War 1 and my grandmother had to obtain a certificate of death after a period of years in order that she could marry again. He was a retaurant manager. He married Nora Ballard from Ealing. They had a son Norman William Thomas Wiseman, my father who was born on 24.09.42. Is there a particular record of these 'certificates of death' please? The problem with obtaining information about UK servicemen in World War 1 is that the records office in Kew was bombed in World War II destroying all records held there.

Garth

You need to give his full details, name, birth, parents and place

x

What is his name?
When/where did grandmother get death cert issued and when was he born?
If the cert was issued in England/Wales the refs should be on Freebmd?

She would have been granted a divorce automaticlly after 7 years on the grounds of being continually absent and no evidence found a spouse was living.so declared dead, &presumed dead,



"presumed dead" she would have needed an offical declaration from the War Office,,,,but no death certificate would have been issued unless there was sufficent evidence of a body to be buried .This still applies today.

Hope thats of help Garth.

You can have someone declared dead without a body,as in the missing "Canoe man"John Darwin.
A death cert was issued for him..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7128867.stm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_in_absentia

I sent Garth my usual message to let him know about his replies. I have received this pm from him.....


Many thanks Cynthia
Very helpful but too complicated for an old ill man living alone!
best wishes Garth W



I haven't replied to him yet - just wondered what anyone thinks?? Cx

Fan puts tape over mouth Cyn..!

What is too complicated?
Answering on here or finding the death cert ,if there is one to be found?
If Garth would only give the name of his Grandfather,when and where he was born and about when Granny got death cert we can have a look for it and then guide him on how to order it .

Plus he is not old ,I make him under 70 !

I think he means my message........sigh


Some people are old in their 50's!! :P

I have received this from Garth.

Thanks so much Cynthia for your kind help. your reply was fine it was the various steps I found hard to follow.
He died not only before I was born but before my father was born too. He was Thomas Henry Wiseman. He did not return from World War 1. I do not know where or when he was born. He was a restaurant manager. I have obtained a copy of his mariage certificate and have ordered a copy of his birth and death certificate.
BW GW

His name is Thomas Henry Wiseman. All I know is that he was a restaurant manager and did not return from World War 1. His wife was born Nora Ballard who lived in Ealing. She eventually remarried having obtained a death certificate after a period of time when the 'authorities' declared him presumed dead. My father Norman William Thomas Wiseman was born on 24.09.14
I am aged 68 and housebound with numerous chronic illnesses for which I'm registered disabled. I still have my MENSA IQ intact just!

Oooooooooh! You made it! Cx

Welcome Garth

See Garth,I said you were under 70 !
Didnt want to put your exact age but I did know you were 68 by your birth ref,which I looked up,being nosey.

When did Granny get his death made official..?
So you have found his death refs to send for the death cert then?


So your grandparents made it up the ailse just in time then.
Mine did too,4 months before my Aunt Ruby was born.
My greatgrandparents left it even later and there was no disguising that one as my grandad was one of a twin..

That entry I did post and then realised it gave a date of death for 1918 and Garth said he died before his father was born in the Sept of 1914 ?so edited it out.

Joan

Could this be your T H Wiseman killed in 1918??

from ancestry.co.uk

UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919
Name: Thomas Herbert Wiseman
Birth Place: Paddington, Middlesex
Residence: Notting Hill, Middlesex
Death Date: 20 Oct 1918
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: W. London
Rank: Private
Regiment: Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment)
Battalion: 2nd Battalion
Number: G/57525
Type of Casualty: Died
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre



if so, possibly a different man rom Thomas Henry Wiseman


sylvia

Could someone look on the 1911 Census to see if Thomas can be found on there, please?




sylvia

Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-1919 - soldier details
Name: Thomas Herbert WISEMAN Memorial Scroll




Rank: PRIVATE

Initials: T H

Birthplace: Paddington, Middlesex

Residence: Notting Hill, Middlesex

Enlisted: W. London

Regiment, Corps etc.: Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment)

Battalion etc.: 2nd Battalion.

4.8.14 Malta. Sept. 1914 to England and Hursley Park in 23rd Bde. 8th Div. 7.11.14 landed at Havre. 11.11.18 23rd Bde. 8th Div. Belgium; Douvrain. N.W. of Mons.


Number: G/57525

Date died: 20 October 1918

How died: Died

Theatre of war: France & Flanders

(from FMP)

Chris :)


1911 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

WISEMAN, Herbert Head Married M 34 1877 Plumber Mids Enfield VIEW
WISEMAN, Mary Phoebe Wife Married
13 years F 32 1879 Lancashire Rochdale VIEW
WISEMAN, Thomas Herbert Son M 12 1899 School London Paddington VIEW
WISEMAN, Fredric George Son M 10 1901 School London Fulkham VIEW
WISEMAN, Daisy Emily Phoebe Daughter F 8 1903 London Paddington VIEW
WISEMAN, Dorothy May Daughter F 6 1905 London Hammersmith VIEW
WISEMAN, Mabel Florence Daughter F 4 1907 London Hammersmith VIEW
WISEMAN, Albert Son M 2 1909 London Hammersmith VIEW
WISEMAN, George Walter Son M 0 (2 MONTHS) 1911 London Hammersmith VIEW

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
229 Reference:
RG14PN229 RG78PN8 RD3 SD2 ED3 SN175

Registration District:
Fulham Sub District:
South Hammersmith Enumeration District:
3 Parish:
Hammersmith

Address:
143d Block Guinnness Buildings Hammersmith W County:
London

Is Thomas HENRY Wiseman on the 1911??



just wondering about him




sylvia

Name: Thomas Henry Wiseman
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1880
Baptism Date: 18 Jul 1880
Father's name: Thomas Mcdonald Wiseman
Mother's name: Carolina Adelard Matilda Wiseman
Parish or Poor Law Union: Streatham St Peter
Borough: Lambeth

Name: Thomas Henry Wiseman
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1888 Name: Thomas Henry Wiseman
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1889
Baptism Date: 9 Oct 1889
Father's name: George Wiseman
Mother's name: Elizabeth Wiseman
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse Fields St John
Borough: Tower Hamlets

Name: Thomas Henry Wiseman
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1888
Baptism Date: 8 Dec 1888
Father's name: Henry Wiseman
Mother's name: Martha Wiseman
Parish or Poor Law Union: Notting Hill St Mark
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea Name: Thomas Henry Wiseman


Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1892
Baptism Date: 16 Nov 1892
Father's name: Thomas Wiseman
Mother's name: Emma Wiseman
Parish or Poor Law Union: Notting Hill All Saints
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea

(London Baptisms, Ancestry, just adding in case!)

From a look up at:
http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp?menuid=14

Name: WISEMAN, THOMAS
Initials: T
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Royal Scots
Unit Text: 12th Bn.
Age: 18
Date of Death: 25/04/1918
Service No: 51624
Additional information: Son of Mary W. Wiseman, of 8, Whitevale St., Dennistoun, Glasgow, and the late James Wiseman.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 11 to 14 and 162.
Memorial: TYNE COT MEMORIAL

This guy will have no known grave - there might be a matching grave of "A Soldier of the Great War - Known unto God", but probably not.

Does his being Scottish throw a wrench into the works?
WW1 war death certs are singularly uninformative. For an example page of the register, see the link near the end of the page at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&404

English ones are the same.
As you will have inferred, war deaths overseas were not registered in the standard way, but in special registers.
FindMyPast has transcribed their index and you can use the ref to order thru the GRO.
(Ask on these boards for a specific look up.)

Literally hundreds of thousands of soldiers were MIA in WW1.
There are 4 special memorials to them on the Western Front - Menin Gate, Pozieres, Thiepval, Tyne Cot, I think
There are also 3 naval memorials to sailors with no known grave at Chatham. Plymouth, Portsmouth.