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Searching for a needle in a haystack... if anyone can help I'd be grateful:

Looking for Edward Williams (c1896 - c1830) married to Frances Crean (1900 - 1979) on 27/12/1921. Probably died in or around Cwmbran, S. Wales - pos. on 2/10/1930. Their children are Cynthia, Roy, Kenneth and Joan.

Edwards parents were John Williams (d. c'1940) and Louisa Shepherd (1863 - 1934). Married (I think!) Sept 1894 - Cardiff district.

Siblings may include: William John (c'1889-c'1967), Thomas (b. c'1894), Edgar (c'1898 - c'1957), Doris May (b. c'1899), Trevor (b. c'1901) and Agnes (b. c'1904).

I know that Edward was in WW1 (I'm really interested to find out more about this) and worked down the mines in S.Wales on his return.

I'm a bit of a newbie and have spent a fortune trying to find Edward in the 1901 census. Freebmd isn't helping me because I can't work out which Edward Williams is MY Edward Williams without seeing the family relationships. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can take this forward?

(Incidentally, I've got Edward's marriage certificate on order and also the marriage certificate for his parents John and Louisa).

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that a more experienced researcher can jump start my search as it seems to have stalled somewhat!

Many thanks,

Lisa

Lisa

Can i ask how you come to who Edwards parents were

Ditto -- and their birthdates, and where the info about possible other children came from.

A tip -- if you're spending a fortune to see censuses, you are probably doing it at this site. Credits here are the most expensive and inefficient way of doing searches. A subscription at Ancestry (there's a 14-day free trial) or even at this site will work out cheaper in the long run almost always.

Someone else in the family has done a little research, and I inherited most of this information from them. I'm hoping that the marriage certificates will help to verify Edwards father at least.

You have:

Siblings may include: William John (c'1889-c'1967), Thomas (b. c'1894)

and

Edwards parents were John Williams (d. c'1940) and Louisa Shepherd (1863 - 1934). Married (I think!) Sept 1894 - Cardiff district.

-- a slight conflict, so at least one birth would have been pre- that marriage. So there could have been a previous marriage for one or both parties. Louisa at least would both have been a little old for a first marriage in 1894, as things commonly went. Shepherd might not have been her birth surname -- if widowed, she would have married under her first husband's surname.

Best not to go on inherited info without having verified the source. When you get the marriage cert info, just post it here and it will be a little something to go on! If it was a second marriage, it should note "widow(er)" for the spouse in question, and birth surname for Louisa if it was her second marriage.

Louisa's name in that 1894 marriage is Louisa Caroline Shepherd. There are two births in that name, both in 1860, one in Goole and one in Bermondsey. (Of course, she might have been registered as just Louisa.)

No Louisa Caroline marriage to a Shepherd in Cardiff in the time period ...

I'm at the very beginning of the search so there's a lot of verifying to do :-)

Louisa and John were definitely Edwards parents - I have a copy of the parish register (dated 1897) where they seem to have had 4 children baptised - presumably at the same time! Edward Thomas is listed as being a baby.

...one thing I realised after I posted though was that Louisa WAS a widow (Doh!). She originally married William Kew - if the info I have is correct, on 17/10/1882.

It seems I may have just purchased the wedding certificate of a complete stranger!!

Oh well... live and learn...

Wasted your money ... and only a bit of the time of anybody trying to do searches for you ... !

So yes, she would have married as Louisa Kew. Although we still don't know that any of the info you have is correct - ?

She's not showing up on the 1891 at Ancestry.

And no marriage for Louisa Kew + John Williams is showing up at FreeBMD.

They may not have been married, of course!

Numerous William Kew deaths 1882-1894. Only one that looks possibly relevant, from age and location:

Deaths Sep 1887
Kew William 35 Newport, M 11a 117

Marriages Dec 1882
DAVIES Mary Jane Pontypool 11a 246
Kew William Pontypool 11a 246
Price Matthew Henry Pontypool 11a 246
SHEPHERD Louisa Pontypool 11a 246
Shepherd Louise Pontypool 11a 246

Sorry for wasting your time... I'm very new to this and somewhat overwhelmed by masses of information that I've inherited. I'm hoping that I'll know what I'm doing before long, but at the moment I'm a bit lost.

I do know that Edward was baptised as a baby in 1897 (he is in the parish register) and that John and Louisa Williams are listed as parents. John is listed as a Collier in Henllys.

Ah, the parish register. And that would be which parish? Oops -- Henllys.

I'm quite happy to avoid work searching for total strangers' ancestors, but I do like it if they tell what they know! And specify where what they know comes from so it can be viewed with suspicion where appropriate, heh. So we do know that some info -- Edward's birth at least -- is from a real source, the parish register.

... Unfortunately, the William*s in Henllys in 1901 don't match up.

(I have Ancestry, so all the census searching is free but for time. Will plug away a little more.)

And here we are, in 1891.


Name: John Williams
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa
Where born: N Wales, Reocham

Civil Parish: Henllys
Ecclesiastical parish: Henllys
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Newport
Sub registration district: St Woollos

Elizabeth Kew 4
Edwin Sheppard 11
Elizabeth Sheppard 14
Jinnmma Sheppard 49
Ruben Sheppard 12
John Williams 27
Louisa Williams 27
Wm J Williams 1

Purty good, eh?

"Jinnmma Sheppard" - dratted if I can read it much better, but it might be ?innuma -- is a widowed boarder. She would be Louisa's mother presumably. Ah yes -- it says "Kept by Son-in-Law".

Elizabeth Kew is a boarder -- she would be Louisa's child by her first marriage.

The three Sheppard children are listed after the widowed Ms. Sheppard, and are presumably her children.

John is a coal miner, Louisa his wife.

Louisa in 1891:

Name: Louisa Williams
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Where born: Abertellery, Monmouthshire, Wales

which brings us back to the Louisa I had already been looking at in 1871 maybe:

Name: Louisa J Sheppard
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Louisa
Where born: Chepstow, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Chepstow
Ecclesiastical parish: Llandaff
Town: Chepstow
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

William Sheppard 46
Louisa Sheppard 32
William J Sheppard 12
Louisa J Sheppard 10
Annie E Sheppard 8
Alice G Sheppard 6

Gosh, well done! Thank you. I wonder if 'Jinnmma' could be Jemima...?

It doesn't really look like it, though I considered it. Theoretically, it should be Louisa!

Send me an email address by PM and I'll email you the image.

No luck at all finding them in 1901. Tried for Elizabeth Kew too, no luck.

I keep coming back to this household in 1901. Some names resemble the ones in your list.


Name: John Wolliame [John Williams]
Age in 1901: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mry
Gender: Male
Where born: Bembershire Wierham, Derbyshire, England
-- it actually says Dembershire Wrexham, and someone has noted "Derby" on the original. It says he is a coal miner underground and speaks both English and Welsh.

Civil Parish: Llanvihangel Llantarnam
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
Town: Cwmbran
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Newport (Monmouthshire)
Sub registration district: Llantarnam

Dowrs May Wolliame 1
Eder Wolliame 9
Edgar Wolliame 3
Eleanor Wolliame 5
Elgie Wolliame 14 - it's a daughter, probably says Eliza, could be Elizabeth Kew
John Wolliame 38
Mry Wolliame 36
Tom Wolliame 7
William Wolliame 11 - born Henlly


A name correction has been made at Ancestry:

Correction Detail:
Given Name: Doris May
Surname: Williams
Correction Type: Transcription Error
Explanation: Error

Great explanation. I always explain why I am making a correction -- the person is my great-grandparent, or I'm not related by saw the obvious error in passing.

If you sign up for the 14 day trial at Ancestry, you can send the person who made the correction a message (be sure to include an email address in case your free trial expires).


In 1891, John's birthplace is Rexham, N. Wales.

John could have re-married/partnered after Edward's birth?

Good grief. What a mess! I don't know how you found this (I wouldn't have found it in a million years), but it certainly looks like it could be the right household (though know nothing of a second marriage for John).

It might help I suppose if I could get hold of Agnes birth certificate to see who the mother is?

Is 'Eleanor Wolliame' a son by any chance (could it be Edward do you think?)

I'd found that one a few steps back by looking for a Doris Williams with father John, and had just tucked it away at back of mind. Fortunately, she was the one member of the household whose name had been corrected! That could mean that the person who corrected it is a descendant of hers.

Looking at the image -- you got it? -- the Eleanor seems pretty clear. Well, actually, it's overwritten in part, and do you know, it could originally have said Edward, it really could. The "le" is written over something, and the little upward hook ahead of the "or" could have been for a "d" -- "rd" rather than "n".

But it says "Daur". *That* could be the error, with someone having corrected the name to fit ...

Edgar, aged 3, originally had his age entered in the female column. That is scratched out, and then something else is scratched out in the male column, and 3 written above.

Doris, originally called May with Doris added before it, was originally entered in the male column as aged 1, which is scratched out with 1 written in the female column.

Your guess is as good as mine, lol.

Yes, I got the image - thanks so much... and looking at it, that would be fairly plausible I think.

Ok... so this may help me to narrow down the right Edward Williams in the census. *IF* Eleanor originally read Edward, then I should presumably be looking for an Edward born in c1894 in Cwmbran.