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Good Morning to you all from North Queensland. I would like to thank all that helped. NinjaLady thanks I will take a hard copy and go away with a "cuppa" and read it all. It seems that you have found her from cradle to the grave. Mary is OH Greatgrandmother was will be very pleased.
Thank you all once again
Regards
Sheila

Back to the Hopkins...

Possibly the family in 1891, although no Thomas with them. Mary is not listed as a widow at this point.

1891 England Census
about Mary Hopkins
Name: Mary Hopkins
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: West Kirby, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Toxteth Park
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park

Household Members: Name Age
Mary Hopkins 45
Ann Hopkins 19 ...assistant at vinegar works,.....born Liverpool
Sarah Hopkins 17 ....born Tranmere
William Hopkins 12...born Liverpool
Louia Hopkins 8 ....born Liverpool
Susie Hopkins 4 ...born Liverpool

If this is the correct family, then this may be them in 1901

1901 England Census
about Mary Hopkins
Name: Mary Hopkins
Age: 57
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: West Kirby, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Address - 109a Park Street (cellar)

Registration district: Toxteth Park
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Hopkins 57 ...widow
William Hopkins 21
Fanny Hopkins 14 (may be the Susie from the 1891)

Think this may tie in with the information given previously that Sheila's OH remembers a Fanny as the youngest child.


Here they are in 1911 - still in Park Street, Toxteth

HOPKINS, Mary Head Married Widow F 66 1845 School Caretaker Cheshire West Kirby
HOPKINS, Fanny Daughter Single F 24 1887 Assisting School Caretaker Lancashire Liverpool

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Registration District:
Toxteth Park Sub District:
Toxteth Park South West Enumeration District:
4 Parish:
Toxteth Park

Address:
105 Park St Liverpool County:
Lancashire

Mary states on the original that there were 10 children born alive and 6 still living in 1911.

Michele has posted 1851/61 for Mary. Joseph & Ann's ages are transcribed correctly from image in 1851, but clearly are rubbish - presume the enumerator made an error upon entering them.
Also relevant is the next-door 1861 h/h


1841 England Census
Civil parish: West Kirby
Hundred: Wirrall (Lower Division)
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: West Kirby
Registration district: Wirral
Sub-registration district: Woodchurch

Joseph Rainford 25 Cheshire, England Ag Lab
Ann Rainford 30 Cheshire, England
William Rainford 7 Cheshire, England
Thomas Rainford 5 Cheshire, England
George Rainford 3 Cheshire, England
Sarah Rainford 1 Cheshire, England

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 127; Book: 16; Civil Parish: West Kirby; County: Cheshire; Enumeration District: 9B; Folio: 5; Page: 15; Line: 10; GSU roll: 241254.

[Adult =15+ ages rounded down to a mult of 5 in 1841]


In 1851, they've 3 sons working nearby in Grange:

Civil parish: Grange
Sub-registration district: Woodchurch


Thos Rainford 16 West Kirby, Cheshire, England Servant U House Labourer

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2174; Folio: 137; Page: 25; GSU roll: 87165-87167.


William Rainford 17 West Kirby, Cheshire, England Servant U House Servant

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2174; Folio: 138; Page: 26; GSU roll: 87165-87167.


George Rainford 12 West Kirby, Cheshire, England Servant U Farmers Servant

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2174; Folio: 138; Page: 27; GSU roll: 87165-87167.



1861 England Census
Civil parish: West Kirby
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: West Kirby
Registration district: Wirral
Sub-registration district: Woodchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 17

William Rainford 28 Heswell, Cheshire, England Head M Agricultural Labourer
Alice Rainford 26 Hoydlake, Cheshire, England Wife M
William Rainford 1Mo West Kirby, Cheshire, England Son

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2638; Folio: 51; Page: 4; GSU roll: 543003.

probably those 2 Wirral birth - both in Woodchurch rather than West Kirkby (different place from Kirkby Lancs)

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1840 to 1845
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
RAINFORD Mary Woodchurch Wirral WOO/3/26

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1846 to 1850
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
RAINFORD Mary Woodchurch Wirral WOO/3/81

taken from cheshirebmd.org.uk

do not know the Wirral area - maybe Woodchurch sub-district for West Kirkby

EDIT - just loked back at 1871 census which show West Kirkby - sub district Woodchurch

I want to thank everyone that has helped me with this. It is 11pm in OZ so I must away to bed
Thak you again
Sheila

I agree you could be right but that still leaves Mary and Ellen, I can look at the 1881 census, and they are not there .and OH only knows of Amy/Ann, and Fanny I think she was the last of the children
Sheila

Name: Mary Rainford
Gender: Female
Event Type: Christening
Birth Date:
Christening Date: 01 Dec 1844
Marriage Date:
Banns Date:
Death Date:
Burial Date:
Event Date:
Birthplace:
Christening Place: West Kirby, Cheshire, England
Marriage Place:
Banns Place:
Death Place:
Burial Place:
Event Place:
Father's Name: Joseph Rainford
Mother's Name: Ann
Principal's Marital Status:
Principal's Residence: , West Kirby, Cheshire, England
Spouse's Name:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Residence:
Spouse's Father:
Spouse's Mother:
Age:
Image Number: 99
Digital Folder Number: 4018394
Film Number: 1656757
Collection: England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000

I think its more likely to be a mistranscription of some sort and he should be listed as 30 as the relationship for Thomas is Head and Mary is listed as Wife.

Its possible that the enumerator misheard 30 and wrote 50, or perhaps the person who transcribed the enumerators notes misread his handwriting and wrote 50 instead of 30 on the final copy.

Jean is definitely a male on the 1871 so I would be confident to say that this is actually the John from the 1881.

I am sorry I went away but a good "cuppa' sometimes helps. On the 1871 census Thomas is head of the house aged 50 that would mean he was born in1821 in Ireland. ---- IF Mary was 26 and the dates tally for her .Thomas her father was born in 1841 . So is this Thomas in the 1871 census her grandfather and Jean, Mary ,and Ellen, her children. There seems to be a mystery there.
Sheila

Groom's Name: Thomas Hopkins
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Mary Reinford
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 29 Aug 1864
Marriage Place: St. Paul Church, Liverpool, Lancaster, England
Groom's Father's Name: John Hopkins
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: Joseph Reinford
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01091-8
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1656375
Reference Number: It 3 p 205
Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973

Hi Sheila

I think Jean may be a mistranscription for John. He is actually a male on the original.

Will look at Ellen - could she be Caroline under a middle name?

I don't understand the 1871 census , who do you think the children are other than Mary there are not his
Sheila

Sorry Ninja Lady I/we know nothing about Thomas, and no I don't have his and Mary's GRO Marriage certificate. I do have his daughters Ann's mis transcribed as Amy's marriage lines that was how we know that Thomas was a tailor
Sheila

1851 England Census
about Mary Rainford
Name: Mary Rainford
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: West Kirby, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: West Kirby
Ecclesiastical parish: West Kirby
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Wirral Street Indexed
Sub-registration district: Woodchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 12, 15, 16, and 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Rainford 58
Ann Rainford 59
Sarah Rainford 11
Ann Rainford 9
Mary Rainford 6
Ellen Rainford 4
Joseph Rainford 1

Deleted census info - safc posted the marriage details which confirms that Michele has posted the correct census information for Mary Rainford.

Here is the family in 1871 - Mary's year of birth is now c1845 so she could be either of the two Wirral birth registrations.

1871 England Census
about Mary Hopkins
Name: Mary Hopkins
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: West Kirby, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mathew
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park

Thomas Hopkins 50 ....tailor....born Ireland
Mary Hopkins 26 ...born West Kirby
Jean Hopkins 6 ...born West Kirby
Mary Hopkins 5 ...born Birkenhead
Ellen Hopkins 3 ...born Liverpool

1861 England Census
about Mary Rainford
Name: Mary Rainford
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: West Kirby, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: West Kirby
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Wirral
Sub-registration district: Woodchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Rainford 48
Ann Rainford 50
George Rainford 23
Mary Rainford 16
Ellen Rainford 14
Joseph Rainford 11
Samuel Rainford 8
Robert Rainford 5

Snap Michele - was just about to post these two possibles - more likely than West Derby


Births Dec 1844 (>99%)
RAINFORD Mary Wirral 19 328

Births Jun 1846 (98%)
Rainford Mary Wirral 19 414



With regard to Thomas Hopkins - without a specific place in Ireland it would be difficult to trace his birth.

Do you have the marriage certificate - knowing his father's name might help a little but Ireland isn't my strong point!! You could have a look on the Family Search Beta site - they hold Irish Civil Registration records on there.

T hank you Ninja lady, it could be. can I be very cheeky and ask if you can find the birth place for Thomas Hopkins. it was in Ireland according to the 1881 census. Mary is my OH 1x greatgrandmother and he knows nothing about them at all
thanks again
Sheila

Poss Birth Name: Mary Rainford
Year of Registration: 1844
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Wirral (1837-1974)
County: Cheshire
Volume: 19
Page: 328 (click to see others on page