Find Ancestors

I may have posted this before, a long time ago, but hopefully new people, new resources, new thoughts have appeared since then.

I have all relevant certificates.

Born Preston 1863.

1871 England Census
about James Weaver
Name: James Weaver
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Sarah (nee Cross)
Gender: Male
Where born: Preston, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Farington
Ecclesiastical parish: Farington St Paul
Town: Farrington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Preston
Sub-registration district: Longton
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 180
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Weaver 42
Sarah Weaver 30
Thomas Weaver 11
Ann Weaver 10
James Weaver 8
Elizabeth Weaver 7
Miles Weaver 5
Richard Weaver 3
Mary Weaver 3 weeks

1901 England Census
about James White Weaver
Name: James White Weaver
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Francis Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Buston, (Preston, I have reported it) Lancashire, England

Civil parish: MacClesfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Macclesfield St George
Town: MacClesfield
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Macclesfield
Sub-registration district: Sutton
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 62
Household Members: Name Age
James White Weaver 38
Francis Ellen Weaver 23
Nellie White Weaver 4
James Weaver 3
Lily Weaver 2

Marriage to Frances Ellen Holland:
Name: James White Weaver
Year of Registration: 1896
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: MacClesfield
County: Cheshire, Derbyshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 157 (click to see others on page)
Witnesses E Weaver (presume father in law) and E Gaskille (not known).

None of his Lancashire relatives came to Macclesfield, though a few Macclesfield descendants recall visiting Preston where a female member of the family was a solicitor in the 1960s. Never traced.

My question. Where is he in 1881 and 1891?

Family stories say he lied about his age in order to join the army. Then he deserted cos he didn't get send to anywhere exciting. Then he rejoined using the name James White. I have researched this family almost to the ark, there is no White in the family. He fabricated the name. And then became James White Weaver on marriage in 1896.

He was "defintely" in the army cos family members recall photos and a painting of him in army uniform. After marriage he became a chimney sweep.

There is a James White at Alverstoke in 1881, age 18, unmarried, gunner, a blacksmith, born Christchurch. Who knowns?

Can anyone find him or make any suggestions?

have you searched for him just under the initials J W

Ann, there's a JW in the Looney Bin, possibly two of them, but nothing to suggest they are mine. There again, nothing to suggest they are not.

just wondered if the army listed by initials as well as hospitals etc. Don't have access to look at details myself

Ann, What would I want to be accessing and where? To find army records around that time.

Margaret

Sorry Margaret, I don't really have clue. It was just a thought that he might be in barracks in England somewhere and therefore on the census.

You need someone who has more experience of military records perhaps.

n

Try: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp
(under British Army)

The birthplace is right. ;) (At least it's where he lived as a child)

1881

Name: James Weaser
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Farrington, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Hosepipe Weaver

Civil parish: Pendleton in Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 13 Strawberry Rd
Registration district: Salford


The name is overwritten and not really legible, but Weaser isn't a name.

Funny how his occupation was Weaver though -- just that it was Hose Pipe Weaver, not Horsepipe. ;)


There isn't a James Weaver born c1860 in Farrington in the 1871 census.

1891 ... this one is born in the right place, and living in Macclesfield reg dist ...


Name: James Moran
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Farrington, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Nether Alderley
Town: Nether Alderley
County/Island: Cheshire
Registration district: Macclesfield

James Dane 57 - fruiterer
Alice Dane 41
James Moran 29 - general labourer


Can't match him to anyone in 81 or 71 either.

As far as Army records go, his records, if the rumours were true and his papers have survived, will be at the National Archives. They are filed in date bands of date of discharge so the appropriate date band in this case would seem to be those discharged 1883-1900. You can look under both names.You'd have to go there though or get someone to go for you as they're not online.

Well, those two found by Janey give some real food, for thought. Farrington. Hmm. Weaser. Wrong year, but not a lot out for a lodger. And nothing ties him back to previous years.

Moran is a totally new name. No Morans in the family for him to have pinched that name. But there he is in Macclesfield. No other trace.

We know he lied, so anything is possible.

How the hell do I prove anything from these?

Ann, thanks for the advice. I will consider a trip to the NA. Meanwhile a few letters to relatives I think. Though they are all noddies.

Margaret

There is James Moran marriage in Macclesfield in 1897, so that might count him out.

A further family rumour that only I seem to have heard is that James was previously married. Not surprising given that he was 33 when he married Frances Ellen Holland.

Doesn't lead me anywhere at all.

Margaret

Marriages Mar 1897
Johnson Ellen Macclesfield 8a 195
Moran James Macclesfield 8a 195
Shepley Ellen Macclesfield 8a 195
White Joseph Macclesfield 8a 195

One way or the other, he married Ellen. ;)

It think this would be him in 1901:

Name: James Moran
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ellen
Where born: MacClesfield, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: MacClesfield


Age quite off from the other one.

Yeah, I'd say that's the one in 1891 born c1867 in Macclesfield, lodger. Although ... fustian cutter 1891 to railway labourer 1901 ...

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about James Weaver
Name: James Weaver
Birth Date: abt 1864
Age: 31
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 21 Jun 1895
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Britannic
Search Ship Database: View the 'Britannic' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Official Number: 69368

But it says he is a foreigner. Labourer.

Okay, I've given up again for now. James Weasel or whatever it was that Janey found is the best so far. It's an improvement on my last attempt.

The answer probably lies in a photo that my hubbie's cousin has of James White Weaver in uniform, that is stuffed her attic, and she cannot be bothered getting out. It might at least tell us what regiment he was in. Thinking about it, she lived in the family house till about 1975, so she might have other stuff, again, in her attic. But she ain't about to part with it.

Frustration.

Margaret

For this period you don't need to know his regiment to find his records. Trouble is, if his personal records haven't survived, there are other sources at Kew to look at, but for those you would need his regiment.

Hi Ann

I didn't understand your post. Part of it implies and I don't need to know his regiment, and part of it implies that I do.

I am a bit thick, have never applied for regimental records other than those during WW1 and WW2. This guy did not serve in either.

So where do you think I should look? If it has to be a trip to Kew then so be it. But at this point in time I haven't got any evidence that he was in the army at all. Other than that photo that my husband's cousin seem reluctant to admit she has even got..

Sorry - I wasn't very clear! I meant that if his own personal records have survived (not all have) - ie his discharge documents, then you don't need to know his regiment as for this period they are all filed together.

However, if his discharge records haven't survived then there are other Army records which can be searched, but these are all arranged by regiment, so you would have to know which one he was in.

You can't know whether or not he was in the Army if you've got no definite evidence. You can only look at the surviving discharge papers to see if you can find him.