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Looking for help with my dad, his mum was Eliza Gilbert (1884-1956) from Derby but moved to Mansfield Woodhouse where dad was born, according to dad's birth certificate his father was Joseph Vickers who was 75!!!! when dad was born, Eliza pretended to be a Vickers but was not, anybody with an idea ? Many thanks in advance Alan Vickers

How do you know Joseph's age?

Hello Jill

I have a death certificate for a Joseph Vickers at the Mansfield Woodhouse address for 1919 aged 77

So, you need to find Joseph and Eliza on the 1901 census. Have you found either of them? Admittedly Joseph would probably be easier to find as you probably have his occupation?

Wonder why they did not marry? Was he married before? It's possible that his first wife was still around ...

(that happened to at least one of mine that I know of. They had to wait for wife no. 1 to die before they could marry!)

Jill

Jill

Joseph was married to maria Price she died 1890 in the 1901 census he was living with one of his son's John in Mexborough, Eliza Gilbert was living with her parents in Derby Henry Gilbert and Annie Mullin

So, if you have info on both of his parents and you have his birth certificate what info are you now after?

Im confused

If you don't have a M/C for them how do you know that you have the right Eliza Gilbert

Jill

I cannot see how a 75 year old man would have a child with a 33 year old woman, that would make the News of the World in 2008 never mind 1917 ! what makes it more of a puzzle is that Eliza then had 7 other children by an Ernest Betts yet they were all still called Vickers Eliza and Ernest married 1944 and both died 1956

How do you know her 7 other children were Ernest's? Was he named as the father on the birth certs?

Jill

out of the other 7 children 6 have ernest betts as the father though the first one Gladys Clara Vickers has got Ernest Betts as the father yet it is then crossed out.

How sure are you that Eliza Gilbert and Eliza Vickers are one and the same person? Could it just be a weird coincidence with the forename?

Could Eliza Vickers have been the wife of one of Joseph's sons? Maybe that's why there was a delay in her marriage to Ernest?

Oh ok then

Eliza and Ernest married in 1944 Eliza married as Eliza Vickers (widow) this was also some 15 years after their last child was born !!

With all of the documentation I have I do not believe eliza Vickers /Gilbert to be anything other than the same person

Where have you found that her parents were Henry Gilbert and Annie Mullin.....if you have no M/c for her marrying Joseph

from her birth certificate, 05/03/1886

But if you don't have her M/C how do you know that the birth is the correct one

Julie

Her marriage certificate to Ernest Betts says that her father is Henry Gilbert deceased