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A futile hope but I'm bumping this up in case a new member comes along and recognises one of these men

I don't believe this man existed but would love to be proved wrong. He is allegedly the father of James May Vernon who was (again allegedly) born in 1874 in Cambridge. James did exist, he's my husband's great grandfather.

Any help tracing either man very gratefully received

Is this James

1901

Name: James Vernon
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Littie
Gender: Male
Where born: Cams, Cambridgeshire, England

Civil Parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Barnsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 184
Household Members:
Name Age
Isabella Chapman 49 MIL
James Vernon 27
James M Vernon 1
Littie Vernon 25

Who was your husband's father and who did he marry?Do you have his marriage cert?

Sue

That is the James Vernon I'm referring to. The 1901 census and his marriage certificate are the only references I can find to him. His marriage certificate has him living at Lavendar Walk in Leeds in 1898. His wife's name was actually Lillie (nee Chapman). He died in 1940 at Cann Hall Rd in the East End of London. I cannot find any birth information about him nor any reference on other censuses.

On his marriage certificate he gives GFAV Vernon as his father with an occupation of Gentleman. I cannot find any references to this Gerald Vernon anywhere.

If you can find another trace for James or any for Gerald I will be very grateful.

James and Lillie had 4 children in all
James May
George May
Lily May
Leonard May.
Lily May Vernon married George Maker and they were the parents of my late mother in law.
Sara

Still hoping (not very optimistically) that someone somewhere has some information on either of these 2 men

Sara

Still looking, help!!

A futile hope but I'm bumping this up in case a new member comes along and recognises one of these men.

Sara

I know, this is so frustrating. I now have no idea where (or when) he was born. I'm inclined to think that he made a whole life story up for himself when he married Lily. Absolutely nothing about him is tracebale before his marriage.

Even Lily's family is shady. I can't find any trace of a father for her (except a name on the marriage cert). I can just see them before the marriage sitting down and having a whale of a time making things up.

Thanks for the try.

seems Isabella doesnt know how old she was !shes 49 on the 1901 census and 64 on the 1911.Or maybe James didnt know how old she was !!

different age again !!!
1891 census
Name: Isabella Chapman
Age: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:1 Lavender Walk

Occupation:Woollen Weaver

Condition as to marriage:SINGLE !!!!!

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: South East Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Isabella Chapman 41
Lily Chapman 15 occ tailoress

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3685; Folio 89; Page 30; GSU roll: 6098795.

1881 census
Name: Isabella Chapman
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 5 Cranberry St
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Cloth Weaver (Woollen)

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 50
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Isabella Chapman 32 unmarried


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4520; Folio: 127; Page: 10; GSU roll: 1342085.

Name: Lilly Chapman
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 23 Accomodation Road
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 51
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Spink 26
Emma Spink 28
Sophia Sheard 54 MIL widow
Lilly Chapman 5

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4520; Folio: 149; Page: 6; GSU roll: 1342085.

Name: Lily Chapman
Year of Registration: 1876
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Leeds (1837-1929)
County: Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9b
Page: 485

so seemsthe dad on her marriage cert was a face saver as mum wasnt married

1871 census
Name: Isabella Chapman
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Isabella Chapman
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: Leeds
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
Address 57 2 Simon Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Household schedule number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Isabella Chapman 61 widow occ Shop Keeper (spices)
Isabella Chapman 22 no occ
George Chapman 8 son
Edwin Hopwood 31 Son in Law occ machine tool maker
Hannah Hopwood 30


Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 4554; Folio: 98; Page: 2; GSU roll: 8471

1861 census
Name: Isabella Chapman
Age: 53
Estimated birth year: abt 1808
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:10 Prospect Row

Occupation:Mangle Keeper

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 201
Household Members: Name Age
Isabella Chapman 53
Robert Chapman 22 son occ bricklayers lab.
Hannah Chapman 20 occ Silk spinner-later married Edwin Hopwood see 1871 census
Isabella Chapman 12 occ domestic servant



Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 3382; Folio: 83; Page: 34; GSU roll: 543123

1851 census
Name: Isabella Chapman
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: Leeds
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:9 Patrick Buildings

Occupation:Charwoman

Condition as to marriage:widow

Disability: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 2m
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 169
Household Members: Name Age
Isabella Chapman 42
Jane Chapman 18
Robert Chapman 14
Hannah Chapman 9
Isabella Chapman 2

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2320; Folio: 751; Page: 40; GSU roll: 87545-87547.

maybe
Name: Isabella Chapman
Year of Registration: 1849
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Stokesley
County: Yorkshire - North Riding
Volume: 24
Page: 540

mum isabella
Name: Isabella Chapman
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Year of Registration: 1871
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 60
District: Leeds (1837-1929)
County: Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9b
Page: 302

so this takes MIL Isabella back to her family ,her mum was also Isabella .

Thanks for all of the sleuthing Shirley. I am of the opinion that Isabella Chapman never married. On the marriage certificate James and Lily were living at the same address at the time of the marriage. I think they made up a story for the wedding. There is a lot of variation in the census entries for Isabella, which suggests that, either they were a bit simple, or they were happy to be economical with the truth.

At least Lily had a traceable mother. James, on the other hand is a complete enigma. I am reconciling myself to never finding anything out about him. I'm not even sure that he was really called James May Vernon any more.

Is the person who posted a thread about the same Gerald Francis Albert Vincent Vernon someone known to you?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1169104

I know your problem. My gr-grfather Ernest Augustus Monck, who is quite famous in these parts, named father Francis Monck when he married. No such person ever existed. It took me a long time, but I finally figured out that he was really Ernest Augustus Hill, and his father was Francis Hill. People who lie more often than not do keep a grain of truth!

Thanks for pointing this out to me. It is the same man, I think it might be my brother-in-law's post. I'll have to check if he has camraman as his alias. I think it is very likely. In which case, we are no further on but I shall check out some of the leads suggested there.

Sara -- the horrible lack of privacy at this site works in your favour here. ;)

Just click on camraman's username and you'll see his full name!

... What's worse -- I can tell from clicking on your name and checking the marriages index at Ancestry that yes, he is your brother-in-law. If you want to protect your privacy from prying like that, go to your account details and eliminate all the surnames and replace them with a dot or an x or anything you like. I'm not really Janey Canuck!