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I am looking for the birth record for Herbert Richard TURNER who was born c. 1864 in either Woking or Chertsey. I have found two in Chertsey, one in the first quarter and one in the second. Has anyone investigated either before? I believe the one I'm looking for had a father William who lived in Chertsey.
Any help gratefully received as always.
Ian

found herbert and his father William on the 1881 census. living at Mead Kane Chertsey. Both herbert and his father listed as Cattle Dealers. Mother's name Eliza.

Thanks Hugh, but yes I already have that info. Its the birth info I'm keen to find.
Ian

Have you gone past William Turner his father???

Could this be the fathers marriage?

WILLIAM TURNER Pedigree
Male Family

Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZA MASON Family
Marriage: 25 DEC 1848 Chertsey, Surrey, England

Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.

William and Eliza are mistranscribed on the 1871 census and they have herbert there and also a nephew by the name of Allan Mason so if you order the birth cert for Herbert with the mothers maiden name Mason you should get hte right one.

William is down as occuption Knackerman which is to do with cattle. In fact where I live we still have the knackerman come round for dead calves.

1871 England Census
about William Berman
Name: William Berman
[William Turner]
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elvia
Gender: Male
Where born: Chertsey, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Chertsey
Town: Chertsey
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Chertsey
Sub registration district: Chertsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 204
Household Members: Name Age
William Berman 45
Elvia Berman 42
William Berman 21
Eliza Berman 22
Albert Berman 19
Walter Berman 14
Emily Berman 11
Herbert Berman 9
Esther S Berman 2
Allan Mann 30 THIS NAME READS MASON AND NOT MANN AS TRANSCRIBED.

The writing on this census is quite hard to read but it is Mason and Turner not Berman.

The births in 1864 Chertsey only give the name Herbert - no mention of the Richard part. No offence meant but are you sure he was born in Chertsey?
The only births for Herbert Richard Turner that I have found are:

Births Mar 1864
TURNER Herbert Richard W Derby 8b 541

or in the Surrey area

Births Sep 1871
TURNER Herbert Richard Reigate 2a 153

Brenda

Thanks for all your replies. Mel, I'm fairly sure you have found the marriage record for HR's mother and father as we had an Eliza from the 1881 census, very many thanks for that. And Moody Blue, yes I'm sure he was born in Woking or Chertsey and his forenames are Herbert Richard.

Many thanks to all who have replied, I'll now apply for his Birth Certificate.

Ian

Is this the marriage fo Herbert R Turner?

Marriages Sep 1892
CHANDLER Arthur Chertsey 2a 87
Clarke Ellen Chertsey 2a 87
>>>>>>LEVERMORE Ellen Martha Chertsey 2a 87
>>>>>>Turner Herbert Richard Chertsey 2a 87



1901 England Census
about Herbert R Turner
Name: Herbert R Turner
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen M
Gender: Male
Where born: Bedfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: Thornton Heath St Paul
Town: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Croydon
Sub registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 71
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 77
Household Members:
Name Age
Herbert R Turner 36
Ellen M Turner 29
Lucy M Turner 8
Elie J Turner 7
Mable R Turner 6
Herbert L Turner 4
Olive G Turner 2
Lennard Turner under 1 month
Rebickah Livermore 2

Hello again Moody Blue

Believe it or not that's not his marriage record!! I found that one about a month ago. Despite the fact that I thought his wife's name was Elizabeth, Ellen didn't seem too far off and I thought the Chertsey and Herbert Richard links made it seem plausible, so I applied for the marriage certificate, but alas it wasn't him. I am fairly sure his wife was an Elizabeth, certain he was born in Chertsey or Woking and was either a cattle and/or dealer or slaughterman (or knackerman) as that fits with what we know so far. Thanks for your help nvertheless.
kind regards
Ian

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
about Herbert Richard Turner
Name: Herbert Richard Turner
Year of Registration: 1892
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Chertsey
County: Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: [8_]7 ?????????????? It is 2a 87

Elizabeth Dear 1892 Gravesend (1837-1941) Kent

Herbert Richard Turner 1892 Chertsey Surrey

Found Herbert and Elizabeth on the 1901 but mistransccribed again as Robert Turner!! There is a big black smudge over his first name but it is def. Herbert.
This Herbert is a Cattle Dealer.



1891 England Census
about Elizabeth Turner
Name: Elizabeth Turner
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Robert
Gender: Female
Where born: Woking, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Woking
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Guildford
Sub registration district: Woking
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Turner 26 ( Herbert) 1865 Ha Ha!! Charley, Surrey<< it is Chertsey Surrey<<<<<<<<<
Elizabeth Turner 23 1868 Woking, Surrey
Herbert Turner 4 1887 Woking, Surrey<<<<<<<<<<<<?
Alfred Turner 6/12 Woking, Surrey
Joseph Turner 42 Lodger 1849 Newhall, Surrey


RG12; Piece: 555; Folio 41; Page 32

Possible marriage:

Herbert Turner......Elizabeth Smith
Chertsey
3rd qtr 1886
vol 2a page 66

Brenda

Then this must be little Alfred's birth which would confirm the mothers maiden name:

Births Dec 1890
Turner Alfred Guildford 2a 56


and would this be Herbert's death?

Deaths Jun 1928
Turner Herbert age 64 Guildford 2a 130

Brenda

1851 England Census
about William Turner
Name: William Turner
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Son-in-law
Spouse's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Chertsey, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Chertsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Chertsey
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image

Registration district: Chertsey
Sub registration district: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 50
Household Members:
Name Age
Francis Mason 60
Sarah Mason 5??
Allen Mason 21
William Turner 25
Eliza Turner 23
William Turner 2
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1593; Folio: 158; Page: 14; GSU roll: 193490.



1861 England Census
about William Turner
Name: William Turner
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Chertsey, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Chertsey
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image

Registration district: Chertsey
Sub registration district: Chertsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 150
Household Members:
Name Age
William Turner 36 cattle man
Eliza Turner 33
William Turner 12
Eliza Turner 9
Albert Turner 5
Walter Turner 4
Emily Turner 1
Francis Mason 70
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 422; Folio: 64; Page: 29; GSU roll: 542635.

Is this the correct Herbert in 1911?

Name: Relationship to head: Marital Status: Years married: Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born:
TURNER, HERBERT HEAD MARRIED M 45 HORSE SLAUGHTER CHERTSEY S URREY
TURNER, ELIZABETH WIFE MARRIED 24 F 43 BESLEY SURREY
TURNER, PHILIP SON SINGLE M 19 HORSE SLAUGHTER WOKING SURREY
TURNER, FRANK SON SINGLE M 17 ERRAND BOY CHEMICAL WOKING SURREY
TURNER, FRED SON SINGLE M 14 ERRAND BOY GENERAL WOKING SURREY
TURNER, AGNES DAUGHTER SINGLE F 12 SCHOOL WOKING SURREY
TURNER, AGNES DAUGHTER SINGLE F 9 SCHOOL WOKING SURREY ( this reads Lilly on the original census form)
TURNER, FRANCIS DAUGHTER SINGLE F 6 SCHOOL WOKING SURREY
TURNER, SIDNEY SON SINGLE M 3 SCHOOL WOKING SURREY


TURNER HERBERT (RG14PN3034 RG78PN107 RD33 SD1 ED7 SN205)
Address 103 CHURCH ST WOKING SURREY County Surrey
District Guildford Subdistrict Woking
Enumeration District 7

They had 11 Children, 9 living, 2 dead

Hello All esp. Moody Blue wh is a complete star!!!

I've been out this afternoon and was delighted to read all the contributions.

The Elizabeth Dear ref. is a Red Herring - I've been down that dead end before.

I'm 99.99999% sure you've found the right people on the 1911 census, it has the right occupation and they have a daughter Francis (I have been looking for a Frances female spelling) who is my wife's great grandmother. We now have no way of validating anything about the Turners as my wifes mother has a dementia affecting her long term and short term memory, but we'd like to be able to tell her a little more about her family history before it's too late.

Thank you all again for all your efforts...... you've found out far more and given me much more information that I ever expected.

kindest regards

Ian

Again............. only possible births:-


Births Sep 1892
Turner Philip Guildford 2a 55

Births Jun 1894
Turner Frank Guildford 2a 62

Births Mar 1897
Turner Frederick Guildford 2a 73

Births Sep 1898
Turner Agnes Mary A Guildford 2a 64

Births Jun 1902
TURNER Lily Guildford 2a 69

Births Sep 1907 (>99%)
TURNER Sidney Guildford 2a 87

and this must be your Francis as per 1911 census.

Births Jun 1904
Turner Francis Guildford 2a 82

The then soon to be wife of Herbert Turner ( re marriage in 1886 Chertsey on previous page). Note that the place of birth is also same as on the 1911 census ie Bisley.


1881 England Census
about Elizabeth Smith
Name: Elizabeth Smith
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Female
>>>>>>>>>>>Where born: Bisley, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Windlesham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address: Chertsey Rd (3 Fair Carts)
Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Occupation: Games Assistant

Registration district: Chertsey
Sub registration district: Chobham
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
William Smith 42 Head born Chertsey, Proprietor of Roundabouts & Swings ( P games Ser)
Mary Ann Smith 44 Wife born Horsmonden Kent
Mary Ann Thomas 23 born Blackwater Hampshire, Games Assistant
William Smith 21 son born Ascot Berkshire, Games Assistant
John Smith 19 son born Frimley, Games Assistant
>>>>>>>>>>>Elizabeth Smith 15 daughter, Games Assistant
Lavinia Smith 13 daughter born Egham, Games Assistant
Albert Smith 9 son born Aldershot, Games Assistant
Amy Smith 4 daughter born Woking
John Thomas 21 son in law, born Lambeth , Games Assistant
William Lane 19 Games Assistant
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 771; Folio: 19; Page: 31; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341181.

Brenda

1871 England Census
about Betsy Smith
Name: Betsy Smith
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Mary A
Gender: Female
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where born: Bisley, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Ashford
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address: looks like Travelling

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image
Registration district: Staines
Sub registration district: Sunbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 104
Household Members:
Name Age
William Smith 37 Traveller born Chertsey
Mary A Smith 34 born Kent
Thomas Smith 15 born Berkshire
Mary A Smith 13 born Surrey
William Smith 11 born Ascot
John Smith 8 born Bisley
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Betsy Smith 6 born Bisley
Henry Smith 4 born Egham
Joseph Smith 1 born Bisley
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1303; Folio: 28; Page: 19; GSU roll: 838776.

Here is a marriage for a Frances Turner........could she be yours?

Marriages Dec 1921
Paine Ernest G Turner Chertsey 2a 146
Turner Frances Paine Chertsey 2a 146


and possible children?

Births Dec 1922
Paine Ernest H C Turner Guildford 2a 130


Births Dec 1929
Paine Alan K Turner Chertsey 2a 116

these?

Births Sep 1923
Paine John E Turner Portsmouth 2b 905
Births Sep 1924
Paine Thomas J Turner Shoreditch 1c 66
Births Jun 1928
Paine Maurice J Turner Easthampstead 2c 717



Brenda