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re brick in the wall, hi nisa, i can confirm that john was born in heptonstall and had three sisters and two brothers. their names were barbara,betty,sarah, thomas and elizah they were born 1826, 1828,1832,1835 and 1838.their fathers name was william and their mother was called betty greenwood. heptonstall is in west yorkshire. hope this helped a little good luck roger.

nisa....hollingrake family here in garston,liverpool.they lived directly opposite me ,when i was a teenager(in the 1960`s) one Male goes away to sea..the 2 sisters have married,thus losing the name...i can ask one of the girls(she`s 53) about her grandparents if you wish...garstonite

I'm going to go ahead and order Mary Hollingrake's birth certificate (1838) and see if it gives me any clues, if the parents' names are correct. I think I need a crash course in record storage or keeping methods prior to 1837, if I'm to go much further back. Thanks for the help, I'll post here when it arrives. Any other ideas or suggestions out there are certainly welcome.

Oh, and, Happy New Year everyone!

Hi Nisa

A couple of ideas to add to Kathryn's

1) Mary born 1838/9 just after civil registration was introduced - I think you may find her birth here
www.freebmd.org.uk/

Tip: enter Hol* in the surname box and select Lancashire from the county list.

You can buy the birth cert, which will give father's names and mother's maiden name) on line from
www.gro.gov.uk/
costs £7 including delivery to UK address if you quote the references from freebmd - not sure how much postage for you would be but I think you will find details on the site.

You can enter checking detail (eg father's name) and if it isn't correct, they don't send the cert and charge £3 or £4 but you need to be careful the checking points have to be 100% accurate (eg if you put Ann and it is spelt Anne on the cert they probably won't send it)

2) Lancashire has an online Parish Clerk
www.lan-opc.org.uk/
with online records from some areas and contact details for others

If you want anymore info on Lancashire let me know - no expert but I lived there for 20 years, so I know the county fairly well.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

Pam

Now, I know I told you about

http://www.familysearch.org

in case you didn't know it. Click on "advanced search", then on "International Genealogical Index".

Search for James Hollinrake spouse Hannah, British Isles. Nothing else, and not "exact spelling".

The mother's name on the baptism records I reproduced above was Hannah Heyworth.

See whether there's a James Hollinrake married anybody who looks like that. I think you'll find there was. Ann is a variant of the name Hannah.

That record gives you a parish and county.

Then there's nothing for it but to play around. You can try using the batch numbers to be found here:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm#Menu

With a batch number, you can search by surname only.

And there's also

http://www.familyhistoryonline.net

which appears to have crap for Lancashire.

Those are the things I mentioned that people like you and me are generally limited to, in terms of direct access.

You might get some help here:

http://www.lancashire-fhhs.org.uk/

and there seems to be some stuff here:

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

Or we could take extended vacations abroad ...

I have since found that this family (James and Hannah Hollin(g)rake, and children John 14, James 6, and Mary 3) arrived in the US on 29th Sept. 1841, on a ship named "Sheffield" that came from Liverpool, into New York, NY.

Now, if I can only learn about the English system of records prior to 1837! Then perhaps I can track down more information on James and Hannah, as well as their parents. Any thoughts? According to the English census records of 1841, James and Hannah appear to be 40 years of age, putting their birth year around 1800-1801. It also states they were not born in the same county.

I have yet to find marriage documents on them either, but then I must confess, I've only STARTED to look into English parish records. So if anyone's bored out there, I'd really appreciate any help that is offered! I have lots of e-champaigne to go around. :)

Nisa -- tell the nice people what you found about the immigration records! Just so's it's on record, as it were. ;)

*Sends all props to Kathryn*

Awesome find! Thus far, it's the most logical basis in the chronological timeline of events. Now, if I could somehow document their emigration to America, that would be something! This is definitely the closest yet.

*Sends Kathryn the best e-champagne she can find*

Come back, Nisa! I want props!

Looks like birth of John in the IGI:

JOHN HOLLINGRAKE
Birth: 21 AUG 1826 Stansfield, Bacup, Lancashire, England
Father: JAMES HOLLINGRAKE
Mother: HANNAH HEYWORTH

Submitted not extracted, though; batch 7008220.

Complete list in that batch:

1. JOHN HOLLINGRAKE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 21 AUG 1826 Stansfield, Bacup, Lancashire, England
2. MARTHA HOLLINRAKE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 14 MAY 1833 Rossendale, Lancashire, England
3. JAMES HOLINGRAKE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 28 OCT 1835 Rossendale, Lancashire, England

-- all are children of James and Hannah. Martha must not have survived, and Mary came later.

Okay, hold onto your hat. I have them.


In 1841:


Name: John Hollandyke
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Chorley
Hundred: Leyland
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Chorley
Sub-registration district: Chorley

Elizabeth Holdig 5 Mo (belongs with previous household)
Hannah Hollandyke 40 - independent means
James Hollandyke 40 - joiner (carpenter)
** James Hollandyke 5
** John Hollandyke 14
** Mary Hollandyke 2


It may say Hollindrake, but it doesn't say Hollandyke.

I'll have a bottle of champagne now, please, and none of that California crud!

PM me an email address and I'll send you a copy of the image

In the 1860 US:


** John Hollinrake city, Warren, IL 33 abt 1827 England
** Mary Hollinrake city, Warren, IL 34 abt 1826 Ireland
James Hollinrake city, Warren, IL 8 abt 1852
William Hollinrake city, Warren, IL 6 abt 1854
Samuel E Hollinrake city, Warren, IL 3 abt 1857
Thos H Hollinrake city, Warren, IL 2 abt 1858
John F Hollinrake city, Warren, IL 2.12 abt 1860
>> James Hollinrake city, Warren, IL 23 abt 1837 England


In the 1850 US census:


James Hollinrake city, La Porte, IN abt 1836 location?
John Hollinrake city, La Porte, IN abt 1825 England
Mary Hollinrake city, La Porte, IN abt 1838 England


Any chance there was a mistranscription of that Mary's age in 1850?

Or are John, James and Mary in 1850 siblings? James and Mary are quite young. Might your John have emigrated with young siblings -- or with parents?

In 1850 there are also Hollinrakes in Philadelphia born in England, who look like this woman and her two daughters:

Sarah Hollinrake
city, Philadelphia, info
abt 1824 England


Aha, that younger Mary Hollinrake in 1850 would be this one in 1860, I'd think:

Mary E Holonrake
city, Warren, info
22
abt 1838 England


So it's kind of looking like your John was there in the US in 1850 -- the two people who were with that 1850 John Hollinrake in Indiana, James and Mary, are still where your John is in Illinois in 1860.

Sorry, don't think that John is yours - from the 1851 census he married a Rachel

Nisa

Is it possible to get James's birth certificate and if so, would that show his mother's maiden name?

There is of marriages for a John Hollinrake in 1849 who could have married a Mary Collinge.

I can't read details of US censuses since I'm not subscribed -- but he definitely is not this guy in 1850?

John Hollinrake
city, La Porte, info
abt 1825 England

The county is in Indiana, I think, which would be pretty consistent.

Kathryn,

Thank you for replying. According to documents from the U.S. Census, John's wife Mary Moore was born in Ireland, and their son James was born in Illinois (as stated on several documents from the Census, as well as from his children's knowledge on later documentation). I am uncertain as to where John and Mary were married, I only know that he was born in England, and she in Ireland.

There were two John Hollinrakes in the 1841 England Census, born also in 1827, but it is difficult to say which, if either, are the relative of ours that has emigrated to the United States.

I could not find him in the 1851 England Census, nor the 1850 US Federal Census. However his son James was born in 1852, and is shown on later documentation as showing that Jame's birth place is indeed in Illinois.

Do you have an idea or theory about whether he married in England or the US? If the latter, was Mary born in the US? Any indication of where the children were born?

If you think it's possible he may have married in England before emigrating, and been present in the 1851 census in England, those details can help locate him. If the children might have been born in England, their birthdates will be useful as well.

Yes, it lists "farmer" in the 1860 US Federal Census record

Do you have an occupation for him?

I am looking for a John Hollinrake, born about 1827, somewhere in England. I have traced our Hollinrake name back through my father to one John Hollinrake that was born in England, but emigrated to the United States sometime prior to 1860. He shows up in the US Federal Census in 1860, age 33 with wife Mary, and children. His residence at that time is in Illinois, and I believe he is also buried there, but am not certain of it (information came from an unsourced family tree, of whom the owner's email address is no longer active).

I understand there are a few John Hollinrakes that appear in the 1841 Census, as being born in 1827. However, I can not seem to find the definitive John Hollinrake that has emigrated to America. I have checked immigration records and passenger lists that are available through ancestry.com's subscription service, but still to no avail.

Any help out there would be greatly appreciated.

Nisa