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My g-g-g-grandfather was a grocer in the Gloucestershire village of Fairford. He is listed in the 1851 and 1861 censuses as such, and he is the only William Hunt in the village. He is also in the Gloucs directories of 1858 & 1863 as such. On his son's marriage cert in 1864, he is described as grocer. After his death, in 1865, his wife Sarah ran the grocers shop, and is listed in the 1871 census & 1870 directory. She died in 1871. Have just got William & Sarah's death certs. The ages & everything else agree, and the informant in both cases was another shopkeeper, who is in the censuses just a few doors down from the Hunt's. But... on both William's & Sarah's death certs, his occupation is given as "coachman"! No mention of the grocer at all. Everything else ties in, so why would a fellow shopkeeper (obviously a family friend as they lived/worked as neighbours for ~20 years) have described him as coachman? I'm baffled! Anyone got any ideas? Richard

Hi Liz! I should have said above... on one cert, he was "stage coachman", on the other just "coachman". Don't think that they delivered groceries by stage-coach! Thanks anyway Richard

Could he have done both ? One of my relatives is listed variously as a carrier and carrier of parcels in most places (and I know that this business passed down 2 generations to my grandfather). However, elsewhere he is listed as a carrier and fruit grower or just fruit grower. Particularly in some small villages, I think they had to do more than one thing to survive. Ann

Hi Richard, Could local dialect play a part here, or (seriously) a hard of hearing registrar? If the informant gave his occupation as grocerman, could have been mis-interpreted as coachman?! If it is a register office issued certificate, it will not be a copy of the original entry, and is again open to further error. Either due to bad writing on the original, or a lapse of concentration from who-ever wrote the certificate. I have on one marriage cert, (register office job) where the father's occupation is Painter, he was however a Printer. Debbie

Hi Ann, Debbie Thanks for your suggestions. If it was an error, Debbie, then it would be very coincidental that the same error happened on both death certs, some 6 years apart. And on one cert it states "stage coachman", so I don't think it could be that the registrar misheard the informant (a certain "Elizabeth Honeybone", who was an 78-year-old widow at the time, so I guess that she could have been a bit senile maybe?). I suppose that he could have had two jobs, maybe he owned the grocers shop and his wife ran it, whilst he worked on the stagecoach... seems the most plausible solution, but I've got no other evidence for this, and he was never described as such on his son's marriage cert or in the censuses. I might have to get some more certs for his other children's marriages/deaths, to see what they say... Regards Richard

Richard Have you seen the burial details, I know the Church Recrods don't have much, but they do have space to add things like, wife, husband, labourer etc. So they may have put down one or the other so you can check it out. Irene

Two further points to ponder 1) the railway reached Fairford in 1861 http://www.martin.loader.btinternet.*co.uk/Fairford_Branch.htm (remove *) 2) running a village shop in the mid 1800s would hardly be like Tescos on a Saturday morning.

No licensing hours until 1915- "The current laws (in England and Wales) stem back to emergency legislation, The Defence of the Realm Act (DORA) introduced during World War 1, on the 8 August 1914. In May 1915 public house licensing hours were introduced under Asquith's government, this was to increase the prodcutivity and quality of munitions workers."

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Geoff - nice theory, but William is listed as grocer in the 1858 directory, which was before the train line got to the village. Irene - I haven't had a chance to check the burial records, but will try to do so. I have found out that Sarah was his second wife, his first wife died in 1847 & he remarried in 1850. Am thinking that maybe his second wife owned the shop, as the only birth cert that I can find for his children (all by his first wife) lists him as labourer in 1837. Have found a possible GRO ref for the marriage to Sarah, so am awaiting that with eager anticipation. It would solve everything if that has his occupation as coachman & hers as grocer! (I should be so lucky huh)... Richard

Richard Have you tried looking for them in a trade directory? Try www(.)historicaldirectories(.)org I seem to remember seeing transport services in the same name as the local shop on previous occasions. My theory was that they had to have transport to and from the nearest town in order to get the supplies in, so they made a bit more money by taking passengers. It's possible that this could have evolved into a coach business. Kind regards, Mike Smith

Thanks Michael. In the directories that I have found, he was always listed as grocer/shopkeeper - no mention of a coach business. But it's certainly a possibility. Regards, Richard

I wonder if I could add to this debate by pointing out that until the passing of the Married Women's Property Act all a woman's possessions passed to her husband on marriage. One of my great grandfathers was a mast and block maker. As a widower with children he married a widow with children. She was listed as a general dealer on the marriage certificate. A year later, when my grandmother was born, HE was listed as the general dealer on the birth certificate! Stan

I don't know the answer to your problem, but I do know that when my grandfather died and my mother registered his death, the registrar asked her what his occupation was. My mother said that as he had worked in the 1930s depression he took whatever jobs he could get including being a blacksmith, shoe repairer, lorry driver and chauffeur. The registrar chose "blacksmith" and put that down, I think because it sounded quaint, but it wasn't very representative. His father had been an indoor domestic servant in a manor house before the war, but ended up as a labourer when he died. I have yet to discover why he moved to Aylesbury to do this as there must have been labouring jobs in Gloucestershire!

I don't know the answer to your problem, but I do know that when my grandfather died and my mother registered his death, the registrar asked her what his occupation was. My mother said that as he had worked in the 1930s depression he took whatever jobs he could get including being a blacksmith, shoe repairer, lorry driver and chauffeur. The registrar chose "blacksmith" and put that down, I think because it sounded quaint, but it wasn't very representative. His father had been an indoor domestic servant in a manor house before the war, but ended up as a labourer when he died. I have yet to discover why he moved to Aylesbury to do this as there must have been labouring jobs in Gloucestershire!

I don't know the answer to your problem, but I do know that when my grandfather died and my mother registered his death, the registrar asked her what his occupation was. My mother said that as he had worked in the 1930s depression he took whatever jobs he could get including being a blacksmith, shoe repairer, lorry driver and chauffeur. The registrar chose "blacksmith" and put that down, I think because it sounded quaint, but it wasn't very representative. His father had been an indoor domestic servant in a manor house before the war, but ended up as a labourer when he died. I have yet to discover why he moved to Aylesbury to do this as there must have been labouring jobs in Gloucestershire!

Hi In our Hazell family I had always known my Grt.Grandfather was a Bristol Pilot but he had turned his hand to being a "master baker " to feed his family of 10. Later in the course of research I have found he was in fact a mariner from one side of the Bristol Channel (Pill) who had settled in Cardiff at the time his family were born.They then had a "grocer's shop" but later on only his eldest daughter and wife ran the shop and he reverted to a nautical life.The family story is that he was a Master Mariner and this seems to outweigh the years of shopkeeping! Mary