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I seem unable to find these people on 1891 or 1901 can anyone help Florence Mary Saggers born 1862 Hertfordshire she is on 1871 as Florence Catlin living with her parents George Catlin and Caroline (nee Saggers) she is not with her family on 1881 she married John Philpot born 1861 in 1882 Gt Amwell Hertfordshire Her son Joseph age 7 born Hoddesdon is living with George and Caroline in 1891 but I can find no sign of Florence or John I cannot find Joseph on 1901 either Please any help would be gratefully recieved Teresa

no nichola I am not sure if they died - I can find no death record either. But either way as they didn't marry till 1882 they must be around in 1881 Teresa

hi teresa. cannot find her on the 1881 discs. are you sure the wedding to john philpot in 1882 was her first marriage ? could she have had a different surname in 1881. sue

have you got a birth for florence was she christened a saggers or a catlin brenda x

If it helps I have found her marriage and she did marry John as Saggers Tricia

Yep I have her marriage details from BIVRI and it confirms who she married and fathers name as George Catlin she is down as Saggers for the marriage - I have the birth ref but no cert yet Its a complete mystery

could she have remarried between census's my grandmother was a devil to find on 1901. found her mother had remarried and put the children down on the 1901 with her new husbands name. i reckon her first husband died in 1898 and she remarried in 1898. they didnt hang around then if they could help it as marriage might have saved them from the workhouse brenda x

She may have re-married - see below - but she should still appear on 1881 - have found her parents and John in lodgings but where is Florence and on 1891??have searched on first name,birthplace and date but no sign. Can't search properly on LDS,though. Anyway............ Name Year Quarter District County Volume Page Day, Walter Andrew 1901 September Edmonton Essex Hertfordshire Middlesex 3a 949 Kiff, Thomas 1901 September Edmonton Essex Hertfordshire Middlesex 3a 949 Philpot, Florence Mary 1901 September Edmonton Essex Hertfordshire Middlesex 3a 949 Taylor, Caroline Maud 1901 September Edmonton Essex Hertfordshire Middlesex 3a 949 Tricia

very valid point you have there Brenda - I just checked FreeBMD and there is one possible remarriage but it is for Sept 1901 so that still leaves the question where are they before - how likely is it that all 3 of them died Joseph would only have been 17 Teresa

well i hate to admit it but ill be blowed if i can find joseph on 1901 searched all josephs jos jas no surname for herts NO likewise with florence grrrrr brenda x

Teresa - do you think that is her re-marrying in 1901 - still can't find her on 1901 having searched on first name only & year & place. She must be there,somewhere.

george and caroline were married in 1866? so was florence born before this? brenda x

yes Florence was born 1862 - interestingly George had been married before and his first wife was called Caroline too - its driving me nuts this family Teresa

so was caroline saggers unmarried when florence was born brenda x

yes brenda George married Caroline Houghton in 1858 and Caroline Saggers in 1866 I can find no death of the first Caroline yet tho :-(

for those who have been so kind in this I have been sent this info which looks hopeful - maybe Florence was using her middle name and just living with Thomas prior to marriage - they all seem to have been using his name mind Forename(s) Lastname Page ID Person ID Age PRO Age Year Born Where Born Census Place Census County Occupation Thomas KIFF 3E2EC2EAEDA24EDE 60CF54DFC4F01AF1 39 39 1862 Herts Little Amwell Waltham Holy Cross Essex Bricklayers Labourer Mary KIFF 3E2EC2EAEDA24EDE F482B1E96E9D9464 38 38 1863 Herts Hertford Waltham Holy Cross Essex Joseph KIFF 3E2EC2EAEDA24EDE 47CD63F3A77B0787 17 17 1884 Herts Hertford Waltham Holy Cross Essex Labourer In Gun Cotton Factory Martha KIFF 3E2EC2EAEDA24EDE 8B5D29DD722F7B36 9 9 1892 Herts Hertford Waltham Holy Cross Essex Thomas KIFF 3E2EC2EAEDA24EDE 348EBD405D62B655 8 8 1893 Herts Hertford Waltham Holy Cross Essex Carrie KIFF 3E2EC2EAEDA24EDE 88ED6C706424CE09 5 5 1896 Herts Hertford Waltham Holy Cross Essex I wonder - oh well yet another cert to buy - I shall go bank rupt with this family Teresa

lets hope its right another one to put to bed! brenda x