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Hi, can anyone help me in looking up army records at National archives? I know my great grandfather Thomas Henry Proctor was in 21st Hussars in 1885 at the time of his marriage. His regimental number was 1923 and the records I have show him as a sergeant farrier. I have got some muster rolls of 1889 showing him but I really want his description / army records. I believe he left before WW1 but not sure whether pensioned or not. Have requested leaving documents on-line to Nat Archives using what I believe to be correct ref numbers but they have not found anything. The birth certificates of his children (in India) show him in 20th Hussars which is a bit confusing. Hopefully, Stella Timewell

I believe you could try the Ministry of Defence ... they are on the Web. If you phone the appropriate number, they will send you an application form to apply for his Army records. Cost: £25 and there is currently a 7 - 9 month waiting list. Elaine :-)

http://www.mod.uk/contacts/army_records.htm

Thanks Helen. I will try that. For some reason I thought that you could apply there for more recent records ie 1914+ and that before then were held at Kew. Also because of the records only being 'recent' you had to prove you were immediate family with death certificates etc. Perhaps I was getting mixed messages from the tips boards. Only started doing my tree in spring this year and have hit brick walls everywhere already! Thanks again and good luck with your searching. Stella

You can get a copy of his army record from the archives. I managed to get a copy of my grandfathers records and he served from 1900 to 1912 and all I had was his name. If you go to the archives they will photocopy it for you. Maybe it is worth contacting them by phone or on line as you have more information than I had and then they may post a copy to you.

Thanks Maria. I did get copies of muster rolls while he was serving in India but each time i try to get discharge papers they say they can't find anything. That's where I'm stuck really. He definately didn't die in service so where are his leaving papers? Perhaps I will have to ask for muster rolls until he stops appearing on them - longer winded but at least I'd know when he left! Good luck with your own searches Stella

Have you actually been to the Archives or did you get in touch by e-mail or other means.

Hi Maria Went on Nat Archives web site and requested records using appropriate references ie WO 97+ The muster records I did manage to get were under ref WO16. Maybe I need to do some more research on the correct references to check. I have searched the archives own catalogue and used the references they gave. There seems to be so much stuff with overlapping dates and different regiments that I may well have picked the wrong reference to search. Perhaps I should speak to someone there who knows the system! Stella

I actually went to the Archives and I know what you mean about things overlapping. But the staff were really helpful and I picked out two references and in one of them I found what I was looking for. I couldn't find him on any muster rolls though.

Ok. I have just got a 'would take to long' message re my requests to Nat Archives for medal details for Thomas Proctor even though I have given catalogue ref no, name, regimental no and regiment. What more do they want?. I just can't go any further until I find out where he came from or his age. Please can anyone help, I'm obvously not doing this right. Stella

Stella TNA will do research for you at athe cost of about £40 per hour of research so that is probably why they are telling you it will take too long. Your ancestor was in the army at Marriage and I presume you have his marriage Cert giving the 21 Hussars as his regiment? But you also seemed surprised at the then change of regiment to 20 hussars when in India. My ancestor joined 33 Foot and also served in the 48 and 16 Foot. This was a very common occurence to be changing regiments. So it is likely that he joined a different regiment altogether and if the Marr Cert shows 21 Hussars then you must go back in time to see what other reg he might have been in pre Marriage. Have you found him on the 1881 Census? Have you found him on the 1891 Census and have you got all the sibling certs? This is where going sideways to other siblings may help. Have you tried the overseas Births and Marriage Regimental Indexes, now online at 1837? You can keep going through the Muster records which might pick up other regiments. I found other regiments by going through the Muster Records. Janet

Stella I was at Kew yesterday but didn't see this post. I will be there again in February. What we need really is his date of discharge as that is how they are filed. But it won''t take too long to order a number of discharge boxes that will span dates up to WW1. Send me the doc nos that you think are relevant but check that the dates will be discharge dates not enrolmenment. if he was not discharged to penson then he will not be there. i have done this before for some of mine so I will check the refs to see if I think they will be correct. Happy xmas jan

Dear Sheila, The muster rolls that i have for him in 1889 show him as in 21 Hussars. Didn't know if army overseas birth records just gave 20th Hussars as rough regiment otherwise it would appear that no-one in 21st Hussars ever got married or had children whilst in the regiment as none listed. I know they became the 21st Lancers eventually. I will just keep trying but thanks anyway. Stella

Thanks Janet, The trouble with looking for him on the cencus records is that I have no idea as to where he came from (only that his marriage in Ireland ties up with the regiments tour of duty there) nor how old he is as the marriage certificate shows his age as 'full'. i know that probably he was 20- 30 at the time of marriage and probably nearer 20. I could look at all the Thomas Proctors of the right age group on 1881 census and then find one with the right fathers name of William. Perhaps I will investigate this over the christmas holiday. Stella

Stella, Worth looking at Overseas Regimental Index now on line at 1837. This was where I found my soldier getting married in Ireland. Soldiers usually had to be 30 to be married at this time, though many got away with 27ish as they were often underage joining. With 1881 Census you can just key in Thomas Procter with approx age and see what comes up. Some will look better than others provided he is in UK somewhere, especially if he was in army barracks. Janet

Dear Janet, I have got his marriage certificate which is about the only thing I do have apart from finding known children on the overseas army births register on 1837 online and three suprise children according to the muster roll i got from Kew. I did go back to the army registers and indeed found three children with the right surname and the right birth year to tie up with the muster info. The register still shows them as 20th Hussars births at the same time as the father being in 21st! So unless there were two Thomas Proctors who had children at exactly the same time and at least two of them sharing the same forenames then they have to be the same family! I did not know that troopers had to be 30 to marry. Being married in 1885, this would make him 46 by the time the last known child was born and still in the army. does this sound feasable? I really need those army records to sort it out. thanks for your interest. Stella

Stella 46 sounds a bit old for still being in the army though not impossible. Many people have talked about their soldier relatives of 60. They usually joined anywhere between the ages of 14 to 18(Had to be 18 but often lied about their age!) and were not allowed to marry under the age of 30 but if joining at 14 that could make the age of marriage 26. Not sure when the 30 year rule for marriage disappeared but it was in operation when my G grandfather married in 1866. Most served 22 years done in 2 stints of 11 years, giving them the option to leave after 11 years. Many also served in Militia units after their 22 year stints which could make it look as though they have served more years. However he may not have joined until age 24 which would then make him 46 after 22 years. You could try taking his muster records through to the end of his army career and then you should find his pension details. You can download thes leaflets through the National Archives website. I would suggest 2 days at Kew to do that. I do hope you find his attestation papers. It was finding my g grandfather's attestation papers that set me off on my long trail of ancestors going backwards. Thes papers are the key but you are more than halfway there. Keep going and a happy Christmas to you. Janet

Sorry to be jumping across this thread,but have been trying to find the marriage of an Alfred Gallimore,possibly 1875-1880,known to be stationed in Athlone or Athenry,who married a local girl.I know one of his daughters was on the 1901 Liverpool census which stated she was born in Athlone,does any kind person know of the best way to check if any records are available Apologies for butting in and Best Wishes for the holiday season Regards Mike Reynolds

Thanks David Have sent you an email Regards Mike Reynolds

Dear Janet, Just got time to check my messages during usual chaos! Thanks for your info. Did try asking Kew for the next few muster rolls following on from the ones I have in order to trace Thomas Proctor forwards a bit. However, they told me would take to long! I am a bit loath to ask for one document at a time as not sure whether you have to pay ten pounds every time. I have theoretically £5 still in credit from the last documents I ordered. Perhaps someone can advise me as to how that works as not clear on the web site - or I am being dense! I can feel some days off work to go to Kew are looming. Stella