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Nancy Yes, I was a bit cross - but about those 2 pieces not being on the Worcestershire CD and being unable to check them for you as much as anything else! You know how it is: you get the bit between your teeth and want to find them.... Let's hope the 1861 Birmingham census is out soon. I'm waiting for that too for my lot in Aston. Barbara

Hi Barbara, As I've already said before, thank you for your time and trouble. It's the first time I've looked at PROCAT so I thought I had given you the right information. I did say that if it was too much trouble that you shouldn't bother. The tone in your message seems a bit angry and I am sorry if I've upset you in any way. I do try to be as specific as I can when making requests, but unfortunately not in this case. Once again, I appologise if I've sent you on a wild goose chase. Regards, Nancy.

Nancy RG9/2223 and RG9/2235 are not in Worcestershire. When you checked out the PROCAT catalogue numbers for Ipsley after my request that you do this, you should also have checked out the COUNTY - those details were on the next page. PROCAT does say that Ipsley is split between 3 piece numbers (2118, 2233 and 2235). However, the next page tells you that RG9/2233 and RG9/2235 are both on WARWICKSHIRE census under Alcester. I don't have this census, and you may struggle to find anyone who does have it at present as CDS of it are still in preparation by companies such as Archive CD Books. RG9/2118 is in Worcestershire (and I had checked that piece when I also checked through RG9/2117 for Redditch - while searching for Headless Cross for you originally). When requesting future census look-ups, please check out the details of the location, giving the piece numbers and the County they fall into from PROCAT , before posting your request. It would save those people trying to help you a lot of time. Barbara

Nancy Had already done 2118, for Headless Cross, so we know they're not there. Haven't looked at 2233 or 2235 at all, so will take a look tomorrow; if not there, will call it a day. Get back to you later tomorrow (Monday) Barbara

Hi Barbara, I've had a look on the map and Ipsley looks as though it is on the east side of Redditch somewhere between Headless Cross, Matchborough and Mappleborough Green if that's any help. I've looked on the National Archives site and the pieces given are RG9/2118, 2233 & 2235 and it says it's part of the Headless Cross Parish .Please don't spend too much time as I don't wish to cause you any inconvenience. I know how hard it is looking through all those pages, it sends your eyes funny and fingers numb. I do appreciate what you are doing. Thanks, Nancy.

Nancy Have got same problem with Ipsley as I had with Headless Cross. Ipsley's not listed on the Index, and I've trawled through a number of pieces of the census, including whole of Redditch area, looking to see if it's listed on any pages. It isn't. Can't find it on a modern map!! Any clues as to where it is in relation to Redditch for instance? My CD isn't name indexed and the place names on index are only quite general. Could you find out from the location listing details given on the National Archive site for each census; that should give a piece number and would help no end. Barbara

Hi Nancy Will check Ipsley for you later today. Are you going to contact the person who posted the DUGGINS message on the rootsweb mailing list? They may have other info to help you. Joining the mailing list is free - you just have to send a message saying "subscribe" - the mailing list page tells you how to do it. Barbara

Hi Barbara, Have found it now on Rootsweb. Have had a look at the children of Thomas and Mary and it's possible they could be in Ipsley. Sorry to be a pain, but could you check there as a last resort? I'm most grateful for the trouble you have gone to. Regards, Nancy.

Hi Barbara, Thanks ever so much for your time and trouble. I think the Thomas Duggins who was 72 might be his father. I've had a look at the Rootsweb site but cannot find the bit you mentioned. Can you tell me where abouts it is in the mailing list? Thank you, Nancy.

Nancy Have a look at the postings on the Rootsweb Mailing List for Worcestershire. Someone has tonight posted a message about DUGGINS in Redditch with names and children, etc right up to 1901. They must be your family. Amazing coincidence that they've posted it today when I happened to have the name DUGGINS in my mind when I was reading the messages. Barbara

Nancy Have been having a think about this: Do these two have children? You might be able to pinpoint where they are from birth certs of any children born around this time. Barbara

Hi Nancy Can't find the DUGGINS you wanted, but have found more DUGGINS. RG9; piece 2118; folio 25; page 3 Headless Cross Rd No. on Schedule: 6 Thomas DUGGINS, head, 72, needle maker, born Tardibigg. Catherine, dau, un, 48 Catherine Moor, g/d, 9, scholar Thomas Thorn/Thoms, boarder, 20, un, labourer, born Warwicks, Alcester William Wilkinson, 21, un, needle filer, born Warwicks, Bromsgrove (sorry I didn't note down the birthplace for the 2 Catherines) Same piece No; folio 29; page 110, sched no 60 Bromsgrove Rd James DUGGINS, un, 60, lodger, brickmaker, born Worcs, Feckenham Same piece No; folio 35; page 23; sched no 140 Jane DUGGINS, head, un, 34, needle -nller/-sher (could be polisher) born Webheath Edith, dau, 11, scholar, born Webheath Ernest, son, 2, born Webheath Looked right through Headless Cross and also through Alcester St which is split on the census between a couple of different pieces, but couldn't find your Thomas and Mary. Sorry. But hope these other DUGGINS will be of interest anyway. Barbara

Thanks very much, Barbara.

Nancy Will have another look for Headless Cross. Glad to have found some relatives for you anyway. Might be the weekend before I get back to you. Barbara

Hi Barbara, Thank you for the info. I haven't got that family and I don't know where they fit in, but they must be relatives somewhere along the line. Headless Cross was a village just to the south of Redditch but I would think nowadays it is a suburb of Redditch. I would be grateful if you could possibly find them. Thank you, Nancy.

Hi Nancy I looked at Britten St, Redditch because I couldn't find anywhere called Headless Cross on my CD index. Where exactly is it? What town/village location is it in within the county of Worcestershire? Love the name though! No DUGGINS on Britten St, but on Edward St nearby there is: Edward DUGGINS, head, 37, needle positer(?), born Feckerley, Worcs Mary DUGGINS, wife, 36, launderess, born Redditch Edwin, 13, son, needler eyer, born Redditch John, 11, son, needle eyer, born Redditch James, 9, son, needle eyer, born Redditch Mary, 7, dau, scholar, born Redditch Eliza, 5, dau, scholar, born Redditch RG9; piece 2117; folio 12; page 18. schedule no. 104. Presumably these are relatives you already know about. If you can let me have more precise info regarding Headless Cross location, I'll give it another go. But if it's a case of trawling through a large area like Worcester to find it, then it's too big an ask, I'm afraid, because there are just too many pages to search through. Barbara

Hi Will have a look for you this evening. Barbara

Hi, Could some kind person see if they can find Thomas and Mary Duggins in Headless Cross in 1861. Thomas would be about 45yrs and Mary about 36yrs. In 1851 they were living in Alcester Road, Headless Cross but by 1871 Mary was living in Britten Street, Redditch. Many thanks, Nancy.