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No, there was no formal adoption before about 1920 so I doubt that there would be any documents. Maybe her parents died before 1881, hence why they can't be found in the 1881/91 census? Then if Hannah/Jane was taken in by the Harris family, she could have assumed the Harris surname by 1881. Just a possibility, not sure how you could prove it though!

Hi Brian Just so you know, it was me that nudged the thread up again last night. Joan needed it to get all the information on Hannah/Jane from before she goes to look up the baptisms for you today! However, there was no formal adoption in the UK till 1927 so its highly unlikely there would be any papers anywhere. Lou

I haven't been able to identify the Maceys in 1881 or 1891, or Jane marrying. And would there be formal adoption papers, if that is the answer?

I think Elizabeth Harris is Elizabeth Mally/Macey the ages are consistent as is birthplace I would guess the father did a runner and she changed her name back to Harris

The Elizabeth Mally on 1871 is unmarried. The surname definitely looks like Mally (or possibly Malley) to me - not Macey. The adoption theory sounds quite possible - Hannah Jane may have put her adopted father's name on her marriage cert rather than her biological dad? (could be coincidental that they were both called Charles). Using the 1837online 1861 census index, this looks like the same family in 1861, living in Hackney: Charles Harris, 32 Jane, 31 Elizabeth 13 Charles 7 George 1 You would need to check the image, but if that's them, then a name-change for the entire family from Macey to Harris is unlikely - they were already called Harris in 1861, ten years before Jane was born. Richard

two question spring to mind 1)Elizabeth Mally who could be Macey on 1871 - is she single or married? 2) Is there a death for Elizabeth Mally/Macey between 1871 and 1881 that could mean the Harris family adopted Jane and raised her as their own?

In November 1871 Charles Macey is a Ground Labourer.

I presumed it was a mistranscription: I think 1881 is wrong as well. I'll have to double-check Charles Macey's occupation when I get home, I'm at work at the moment and don't want to guess.

What occupation is Charles Macey? I am led to believe that brickmaking was an extremely hard, physical occupation.

That's useful Shacklunll should be Shacklewell, by the way.

Was that a bit of telepathy we had going there Brian !! Joan x

I've got her death on 1837online in 1942 aged 70, so that ties up with the age when married. I can't find her birth on 1837online, so I'm wondering whether Hannah Jane and Jane could be one and the same in some way. I should have added that Jane Macey was born at 4 Middle Street and that in 1881 a family named Harris was living at that address with father Charles and a daughter named Jane aged 10. So I am wondering if the Macey family changed their name to Harris, Jane was adopted by the Harris's etc... But Charles Harris's wife was Jane in 1881, not Elizabeth.

Hi Brian Is it possible that Jane Macey and Hannah Jane Harris are the same person and a name change has occurred somewhere along the line. Could that be why you haven’t found a birth for Hannah Jane Harris. Joan x

Brian You appear to be asking for 2 different things: 1) info on your grandmother, Hannah Jane Harris From her marriage cert 1892, she was aged 20, father Charles Harris, Brickmaker. 1901 census gives her birthplace as Hackney (?) Shown as Hannah Jane Worboys, formerly Harris on your father's birth certificate in 1911 She died 1942. Do you have her death cert and what age is she on that - is it consistent with her marriage cert? If so you can try finding her birth cert. Have you tried looking for Worboys family on 1891 census? 2)You have found a birth cert for Jane Macey in November 1871, father Charles Macey, mother Elizabeth, formerly Crawley, issued in 1936. As to why it is in your family's possession, I think you will need to trace back for Jane and her parents. Is Elizabeth a member of your family? Can you find any Maceys near other relatives of yours in the 1901 census? There may not be a family connection at all. As for why the cert was requested in 1936, its possibly to do with claiming an inheritance, insurance, passport, proving identity? nell

I don't imagine they were interested in family history! I suspect that money is at the root of this: claiming entitlement under a will or to a pension. Have you traced Jane forwards on any censuses, or found a marriage for her?

I am stuck on my grandmother, Hannah Jane Harris who married my grandfather in April 1892, aged given as 20, father Charles Harris, Brickmaker. Born Hackney per 1901 census. No other definite sightings! She died March quarter 1942. Shown as Hannah Jane Worboys, formerly Harris on my father's birth certificate in 1911. Among the few certificates I inherited is one for the birth of a Jane Macey in November 1871, father Charles Macey, mother Elizabeth, formerly Crawley. That certificate was issued in 1936. Question is, why would someone, presumably a family member, send off for the birth certificate of what appears to be a complete stranger 65 years after their birth?

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