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Hi Merry On Emma's headstone it states she is buried with her husband william and son arthur hawes. but your right i cannot find a record of arthur hawes birth only arthur abbott of spalding, so i have just ordered that cert so fingers crossed this is the answer to my mystery. i also ordered his death cert dont if it will help. When they arrive i will let you know what they say. Take care Mel

Getting Arthurs birth Cert is a good idea, i think i will do that. As for other's I have my gt grandmothers Victoria Elizabeth birth cert and my cousin has her gt grandmothers who i believe was ethel. its frustrating because i dont know where to go next. but thank you for your advice its really helping. Mel

Right - I get the problem - Have seen William with Israel in 1871 and as you say in that one he was born in Suffolk. Do you think it would be worth getting the birth cert for Willaim's first-born child? The one where the reg is under the name Abbott?? (see a long way above) You could use some checking points to save getting it if it's the wrong one, but remember, William's name may not be on it. If this is the child of Emma Abbott then at least you will know that if they did marry, it was after the birth of that child. There is a marriage of a William Hawes to an Emma Smith in Spalding in 1881. Don't suppose she had a previous relationship that she chose not to include on her children's birth certs? How many of her children's birth certs have you got? Just Victoria's? Merry

Hello Merry Monty Thank you for your reply, I wish I had known that every one was talking about my problem but my memebership ran out and as I had just lost my job I couldnt afford to renew it until now. Its a shame Rosemary removed her replies I would loved to have known what she thought. My nan was Doris Maud Surridge also known as Hawes as her parents were not married but on her birth cert she is Surridge. But from 1837online I discovered she was Hawes when she married. From her birth cert I found her mothers name Victoria Elizabeth Hawes. I applied for her cert and it has her father as William Hawes and mother Emma Hawes formerly Abbott. My mother has a photo of Emma and always called her Emma Adelaide, a name she knew from being a little girl from my nan who used to live with her. So from her grave (i think its been so long since i worked it out ive forgotten) it gives her age, so with this I obtained her birth cert and found her mother was Mary Ann Abbott and no father is recorded. I have met a third cousin through genes who lives round the corner and we have worked a long time trying to find a marriage cert for William and Emma and a birth cert for William with absolutly no luck. Someone did give me some information that William came from Thorndon.a small village on the Norfolk Suffolk border, Parents Israel Hawes and Charlotte Hawes (Formerly Cushion) and I know the census isnt entirely accurate but in 1881 it says he born Norwich but in other years it says ipswich which is about 30 miles away (I think) The nearest town to Thorndon is Stowmarket, but the dates fit. but how do I prove that this is the same William without the marr cert? Is there any where else I can look to help me move on. Any help will be greatly appreciated and my subscription is good for another year. but new job means i work funny hours and may take a while to reply. But thank you so much for taking the time to reply. Mel

Mel, It looks as if Rosemary has removed her replies from your thread....... I do vaguely remember doing this thread in July (that in itself is a miracle!), but it's so long ago and now the thread reads a bit strange with Rosemary's replies gone! When you say you have her name (Emma A Abbot) from ''her birth cert'' - who's birth cert do you mean? (I assume one of the children of William Hawes?) Merry (previously Sarah!)

Last month I posted a plea for help to find william hawes and emma adelaide abbott mariage cert, and for some reason i have only just read the replies. And i would like to say a really big thank you to all those who replied. someone asked if emma's maiden was abbott on i found that on her birth cert so if anyone could please come up with her marriage cert, it will be fab, any more info needed please email [email protected]. thank you

Rosemary - I agree, we need more evidence from Melanie as to where she found Mrs Hawes maiden name..... Awaiting Mel's appearance! Sarah

Maybe answered my own question! In 1881 Samuel M Miller living with wife Emma A Miller aged 25 in Ipswich. Trouble is she is about the same age as ''our'' Emma and comes from the same place, but haven't we only got one birth reg? Is this a SCANDAL or a co-incidence?? lol Answer - I think we have two Emma A Abbotts as Samuel Miller's wife is still at home in 1891. Ah, but we only have Melanies word for it that Emma Adelaide Abbott is Mrs Hawes name. Sarah - Time for a lie down.....

There's a marriage in 1875 for Emma Adelaide Abbott at Windsor Berks to either MILLER, Samuel Meadows Newman, Robert Henry Wonder if this is ''our'' Emma?? Could she have run away with William Hawes? (or am I getting fanciful??) Sarah

Lucky old Melanie.

Thanks Rosemary! yes, that looks good! (Pity I've been looking for Emma Louisa for some reason lol) The next child is Henry Hawes, 1881, Cambridge, but can't find an entry for Hawes or Abbott for this one. Isn't there a gap on FreeBMD at this date? The graphs are not available for a few days. I didn't realise how much i look at them til now! Sarah

The marriage of William and Emma seems conspicuous by it's absence..... Also, no birth reg of Arthur Hawes in Spalding in 1879ish. But there is: Name: Abbott, Arthur Record Type: Births Quarter: March Year: 1879 District: Spalding County: Lincolnshire Volume: 7a Page: 401 Might not be the one, but what do others think?? Sarah

1881 Change of birthplace, but correct son. Occupation Scissor Grinder! Arthur Hawes abt 1879 Spalding, Lincoln, England Boarder 'Bell Inn' The Waits, St Ives, Huntingdonshire, England Emma Hawes abt 1859 Norwich, Norfolk, England Boarder 'Bell Inn' The Waits, St Ives, Huntingdonshire, England William Hawes abt 1857 Norwich, Norfolk, England Boarder 'Bell Inn' The Waits, St Ives, Huntingdonshire, England Sarah

At a wild guess, right age but not Ipswich (though near): 1861: Henrietta Hawes abt 1835 Denham, Suffolk, England Wife Denham Suffolk James Hawes Junr. abt 1833 Denham, Suffolk, England Head Denham Suffolk William Hawes abt 1858 Denham, Suffolk, England Son Denham Suffolk

Don't you just LOVE Ancestry?? Here they are in 1891: Hawco, Arthur abt 1879 Spalding, Lincolnshire, England Son Stowmarket Suffolk Hawco, Emma abt 1863 Ipswich, Suffolk, England Wife Stowmarket Suffolk Hawco, Florrie abt 1890 Stowmarket, Suffolk, England Daughter Stowmarket Suffolk Hawco, Frederick abt 1885 Stowmarket, Suffolk, England Son Stowmarket Suffolk Hawco, Henry abt 1881 Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, England Son Stowmarket Suffolk Hawco, Victoria abt 1888 Stowmarket, Suffolk, England Daughter Stowmarket Suffolk Hawco, William abt 1857 Ipswich, Suffolk, England Head Stowmarket Suffolk William is an umberella maker on that one - it never rains but it pours!! Sarah

Theres a lot of William Hawes in Suffolk Rosemary!

Oh well done guys, I went away to answer the phone (doesnt work get in the way of this?) and when I came back you had done and dusted. BTW freebmd is being a real pain today.

Sounds as if you know quite a lot compared to many of us and our families!! Here's his death reg: Hawes William aged 58 Ipswich. Vol 4a Page 821 Death Q3 1919 Sarah

Hi there, I will have a quick look but if you are new to all this, do check out the homepage for researching your ancestors, there are a lot of places you can look yourself - thats much more fun.

Is there anybody who can do a look up for me for the above name. All i know is he was born ipswich c1860/1 married Emma Adelaide Abbott his first son arthur was born 1879. he ran a pub in 1901 in ipswich and died 1919 also in ipswich. this is all the information i have so if anyone out there can look up a birth record for him or even better a marriage record, i would truly be grateful. many thanks