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Laura I was very chuffed when you found my John Smoothy in 1861 and I am so pleased you told us the outcome of this query. So often people don't come back and you are left thinking 'well, did she find out her gt gt uncle Jim was in prison?' or 'I wonder if he tracked down that marriage?' so its good to get some feedback. Hope you find out when Richard died. nell

Just to let the people who were kind enough to help me, that I have the marriage certificate now for Ben Bishop and Mary Palmer. She is down as a widow, so either she lied and was a bigamist or the daughter should have put deceased but didnt! Thanks again, Laura xx

Thanks Nell, think I'll start by getting the marriage certificate for Ben B and Mary Palmer, see if that sheds any light! Thanks for all your help, much appreciated . Laura x

There are several Richard Palmers deaths on Ancestry civil reg for Shropshire. What do you think? Name: PALMER, Richard Record Type: Deaths Age at death: 82 Quarter: March Year: 1875 District: Cleobury Mortimer County: Herefordshire Shropshire Worcestershire Volume: 6a Page: 519 Name: PALMER, Richard Record Type: Deaths Age at death: 72 Quarter: December Year: 1876 District: Cleobury Mortimer County: Herefordshire Shropshire Worcestershire Volume: 6a Page: 398 I chose these two as these Richards are the right sort of age to father your Charlotte, and also because of the reg. district fitting in with a Charlotte baptism to Mary & Richard. But there's also: 1 2 Next Name Year Quarter Record Type District County Palmer, Francis Richard 1899 March Deaths Wolverhampton Shropshire Staffordshire West Midlands Palmer, Richard 1837 December Deaths Wolverhampton Shropshire Staffordshire West Midlands Palmer, Richard 1839 December Deaths Wem Shropshire Palmer, Richard 1847 March Deaths Kidderminster Hereford and Worcester Shropshire Staffordshire Worcestershire PALMER, Richard 1859 March Deaths Bridgnorth Shropshire PALMER, Richard 1865 March Deaths Wellington Sal Shropshire Palmer, Richard 1871 December Deaths Ludlow Herefordshire Shropshire Palmer, Richard 1875 September Deaths Whitchurch S (1853-1969) Cheshire Flintshire Shropshire Prev 1 2 Name Year Quarter Record Type District County Palmer, Richard 1889 March Deaths Kidderminster Hereford and Worcester Shropshire Staffordshire Worcestershire Palmer, Richard 1895 March Deaths West Bromwich Shropshire Staffordshire Worcestershire **Palmer, Richard 1896 December Deaths Cleobury Mortimer Herefordshire Shropshire Worcestershire [age 83]** Palmer, Richard 1899 December Deaths Stourbridge Shropshire Staffordshire Warwickshire West Midlands Worcestershire Palmer, Richard E 1866 June Deaths Wolverhampton Shropshire Staffordshire West Midlands Palmer, Richard H 1902 June Deaths Wolverhampton Shropshire Staffordshire West Midlands Palmer, Richard William 1879 December Deaths Stourbridge Shropshire Staffordshire Warwickshire West Midlands Worcestershire Let me know if you want vol/page/age for any of these. Nell

Noticed date of birth, she married christmas day too!

Thanks Nell, havent yet got Ben and marys marriage certificate, will send for it. Thanks for all your ideas, I think you could be right on most of it. Certainly looks like her baptism. Thanks again, Laura x

This could be her baptism? IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0 British Isles CHARLOTTE PALMER Female Event(s): Birth: 25 DEC 1827 Christening: 13 JAN 1828 Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire, England Parents: Father: RICHARD PALMER Family Mother: MARY Am I right in thinking you are bothered about Richard not being mentioned as deceased on Charlotte's marriage cert? If so, he may be dead. They don't always put (deceased) on a cert - it depends on whether the information is asked for/or volunteered. It is possible - it happened quite a bit when divorce was impossible - that Richard and Mary split up and she pretended to be widowed to marry someone else. You need to get Mary and Benjamin's cert to see if Mary says she is widowed or not. Although even that could be a porky! Nell

Does Mary say she is a widow on her marriage to Benjamin? Perhaps Charlotte was illegitimate and invented Richard Palmer as a father for respectability when she married. nell

To clarify, how can Charlottes mum marry Ben Bishop if first hubby still alive nearly 20 years later?! Thanks for looking at this for me xx

1901 Dorothy Halton(Hatton) 1899 Staffs, Wm Halton 1863 Salop/shropshire in STAFFS 1891 William is a boarder in Staffs, have Williams birth certificate... John Hatton and Charlotte Palmer. 1881 William in Hopton Wafers Shropshire with 'uncle' Benjamin Bishop.1810 Shropshire 1871 still at Hopton with Benjamin... grandad! and also Charlotte Hatton his mother. 1861 Charlotte is with Benjamin (dad) and John 1832 shropshire, Williams father. Had certificate for Charlotte Palmer and John Hattons marriage today in 1856 which gives her father as Richard Palmer a Collier! Also got a marriage for Benjamin Bishop to Mary Palmer in 1838.

Confused - where does Benjamin come into this? Which Palmer did he marry? Where was Charlotte born? How do you know this is the right couple? nell

Divorce was impossible before 1858 and very very unusual after that, only really for rich people. nell

Hi Laura, So what you have is Charlotte Palmer married to Bejamin Bishop. Charlotte's father was Richard Palmer. Have I got that right? If you give me the country or place I shall have a look at the census for you and try to sort it out, sometimes it's just the way it's written. Debs

Charlotte Palmer was born 1827, on the census she lived with BENJAMIN BISHOP who she says is father, father in law, uncle to her kids on different census. Found a marriage between Benjamin and Palmer in 1838. Insinuating that he may not be her dad? Had Charlottes marriage today and it gives father as Richard Palmer a Collier in 1856! Not deceased! What do you think?

Hi there Highly unlikely that the mother would have been divorced.Divorce simply was not an option for ordinary folks at that time.Far more likely that the husband was not the father of the child.It happened a lot and the child was brought up in the household with the rest of the brood,often taking the husbands name but sometimes not,as in the case of my own family. Mary

I have a marriage in 1838, after the child was born and now have childs marriage certificate stating a different father in 1856, it doesnt say hes deceased. Is the childs mother likely to be divorced when she married in 1838? Thanks, Laura x