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My mum just sent me a copy of her Fathers' marriage certificate and a copy of her birth certificate. Mum had no idea until her parents died that the marriage certificate says her Father married an Emily Timons in December 1905, but her birth certificate says her Mums' name is Winifred Gladys Knott nee Haine. Mum has no idea why and I'm at a loss as to how I go about adding this to the Family tree, and I'm drawing a blank getting their names to show up on any record sites. Any help will be much appreciated :-)

Hi Do you know what area they are from? is it a possibility that your grandfather married twice? Cleo

Jenny, When was your mother born? Here's the marriage to Emily: Marriages Dec 1905 KNOTT Frederick Mansfield 7b 137 TIMONS Emily Mansfield 7b 137 Crista

When was your mother born and did she have any siblings? You need to check for another marriage for Frederick Knott. nell

Have found Frederick Knott aged 16 in Mansfield on the 1901 census and saved the image if you need it. Need to know when your mother was born and her name. Is your mum's dad named on the birth certificate? I can't find Winifred Gladys Haine on the census anywhere. Who was your mother brought up with? Did she think her mother was called Emily or Winifred before she saw the certificate. Is the birth certificate your mother has an original or a copy she got at a later date. Could she have got a copy of the wrong birth certificate - one for someone with the same name as herself. Kath. x

I can't find the marriage of Frederick and Winifred up to 1920, so it must've been after that. There are no children for Frederick and Emily from Sep 1911 - 1920. I found Frederick and Emily on the census. Both in Mansfield. He's with his mother, she's lodging.

Have found a 13 year old Winifred G. Haynes born Essex, living in Hornsey, Middlesex on the 1901 census. I suppose this could be a mistranscription of the name Haine. Kath. x

It looks like that the marriage certificate you have is from her fathers first marriage to Emily Timons in 1905,and unless your mother is with luck nearing 100 ,cant possibly be her mother,,, perhaps Emily died,,,,,what you need is to look for a possible marriage of your mothers father to Winifred,,,,,but usual practice is that on birth certificates it will have a mothers maiden down as 'formally'>> nee could be that at the time of your mothers birth her father and Winifred wasnt married,,,or Winifred was already married to Haine and hence the nee, If Winfred is no longer living her birth should be 'fairly'easy to work out from her age on death, Kay,

This should be your grandfather's birth reference:- Name: Knott, Frederick Record Type: Births Quarter: December Year: 1884 District: Mansfield County: Derbyshire Nottinghamshire Volume: 7b Page: 90 Kath. x

To Everyone, Thanks for the quick responses... there's definately a link somewhere. My Mum (for those who asked) is Marie Winifred Knott and she was born at home in Matlock, Derbyshire on 15/8/29. She only ever knew her Mother's name as Winifred Gladys Knott nee Haine, so it baffled her and slightly upset her to see the name Emily Timons on the marriage certificate to her Father... she had never heard of an Emily Timons, until this was found when her parents had died. Mum was their only child as well, she had no siblings. I appreciate all the help and advice given by you all and like to say thank you again :-) Hopefully with all the support I will finally be able to shed some light on this part of the family. x

If you search backwards from the quarter of your mum's birth for the marriage to Winifred, hopefully you will find it somewhere and if you get the cert it should give your grandfather's marital status, e.g. widower or (unlikely) divorced. Kate.

This could possibly be Winifred's birth, from FreeBMD? I can't find any Winifred G. or Winifred Gladys with the surname Haine. Births Mar 1903 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Haines Winifred Gladys Hackney 1b 443 And here is Emily's birth: Births Mar 1884 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Timons Emily Mansfield 7b 57 Unfortunately I have no credits left on Family Relatives or 1837 online so I can't find Emily's death. Kate.

hi This could be Emily's death: Knott Emily aged 27 Droitwich.6c 301 Death 2 1912 Don't know the gepgraphy but it's the only one that the age fits. Best Wishes Andrea

They may not have married at all. My father in law was born in 1920. His birth certificate states the mother as being Margaret Robinson, formerly A N Other Name. However the first wife was still alive and living in the local hospital until 1928. Margaret was the housekeeper who had just assumed the surname. Beth :)

How old was your Mum's father when she was born. Could the marriage cert have belonged to his parents? Beth :)

I have checked on 1837online between the beginning of 1926 and the end of 1929 for a marriage for your mother's parents, and can't find one in these years. It may have been before this but I don't have enough credits to look further back. It could be that they never married. We found out after my husbands parents were both dead, that his father had been married previously and had two daughters that my husband knew nothing about. We then assumed that they must have been divorced before my father in law married my husbands mother. However we haven't been able to find a marriage for my husbands parents, and have just found the marriage certificate for my father-in-law's first wife's re-marriage. This took place after my father in law died and his first wife was described on her second marriage certificate as widow. I now know that this could only have been written on her certificate if she was still married to him at the time he died, otherwise it would have said 'previous marriage dissolved'. This has come as a bit of a shock to my husband, but at least I can now stop looking everywhere for his parents marriage certificate. However, in your case it looks like your grandfather's first wife did die, so it is likely that your mother's parents did marry. You'll just have to keep looking between the time she died and 1926. Kath. x

Jenny Just a thought if you need to subscribe to 1837 online, if you put in the promo code FTMSEP you will get an extra 20 % units free!! offer valid until 29th Sept. Good luck, Joan