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Thanks to some brilliant work by various GR folk, I found my husband's gt gt grandfather, James Carter, was originally called Dennis McCarthy. I have him as James McCarthy on 1861 census (thanks Fiona) and as James McCarty (!) on 1851 census. I've just got his marriage cert (married in Trinity church, St Andrew's, Holborn) in 1848. Father's name CALLAGHAN McCARTHY! Now I can't find a Callaghan McCarthy of the right age on familysearch, or on the 1861 or subsequent censuses on Ancestry, nor yet a likely looking death on Freebmd. Tantalisingly, there are a couple of Dennis McCarthys in St Andrew Holborn on the 1851 sample census on Ancestry, but no Callaghans. James/Dennis gives birthplace variously as Marylebone (1851) Holborn (1871, 1881) and Clerkenwell (1861 and 1901), so I feel sure his dad must have been in England. Ideas? nell

How on earth did you find that out---two names !!! Gloria x

What about these???? International Genealogical Index - British Isles 1. Callaghan McCarthy - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Marriage: 1790 , Cork, Ireland Pedigree Resource File 2. Callaghan McCarthy - Pedigree Resource File Gender: M Birth/Christening: abt 1802 Claragh, Millstreet, Co. Cork, Ireland 3. Callaghan McCarthy - Pedigree Resource File Gender: M Birth/Christening: abt 1802 Claragh, Millstreet, Co. Cork, Ireland Gloria x

Gloria James had several children, including Charles Albert Carter. Charles (Chas to make things easier) was my husband's gt grandpa. One of his grandchildren compiled a family tree and noted that Chas had been born 13 January 1866 but couldn't find a birth cert. Chas himself applied for a birth cert in 1936 but the GRO couldn't find it. I had thought this might be due to a) Chas lying about his date of birth - he said on his marriage cert 1886 that he was 21, when he was 20, and b) not being sure where he was born, he said Southwark but also Bow and Islington on the 3 censuses on which he appears. So I tried to find Chas' parents on the 1861 census and failed. Fiona on GR found James McCarthy, who was a cooper, right age, married to wife with right name, age & place of birth and with 6 children with the right names, ages & birthplaces. They were living in Southwark, which also fitted. Of course with fairly common names, this could have been a coincidence, but the clincher was that one of the children was called Richard and was blind. Richard McCarthy was on the original tree I had, and it said he was blind. Interestingly, Richard remained Richard McCarthy and is on 1901 census living next door to his father who is now James. James appears as Dennis on his marriage cert and on Chas' birth cert, which I found when I looked for a Charles Albert McCarthy born Southwark 1st quarter 1866. With me so far? nell

Gloria I don't know where you found them, but I must have missed them in my search. Will check them out. Of course, its possible Callaghan was dead when Dennis/James got married in 1848, but I can't find a death on Freebmd and I can't see him in 1851 census. nell

Getting mixed up here--not as good at this as you,. You have a marriage cert dated 1848 with father as Callaghan Mccarthy, so wouldn't that put Callaghans birth as somewhere in the late 1700's- early 1800's. Gloria

There are some marriages in London for Callaghan 1815, 1818, and 1819 on familysearch. Heather

Nell, found this in 1861 living on his own in what looks like Southampton St, and he is a hair dresser !!!! didn't know they had them then. Callaghan McCarthy abt 1805 Cork, Ireland Head Camberwell Surrey Going out soon Gloria x

Heather They look very promising. I can't think how I missed them, I must have been overexcited. I was convinced James' dad would be Dennis. I notice James called one of his children James but none of them Dennis or Callaghan! nell

Gloria Thanks, I had that Callaghan, but dismissed him as he wasn't married - you know how camp male hairdressers are! Seriously, I thought that if James/Dennis was illegitimate, he would have had his mother's surname? nell

How old was James, Nell? There's a James Callaghan Mccarthey 1813 on the IGI I'm getting confused! Heather

Hi Nell, Theres a death in 1846 for a Callaghan McCarthy. Deaths Jun 1846 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- McCARTHY Callaghan W London 2 163 West London Created 1st April 1838 (renaming of Farringdon district). Abolished 1st January 1870 (incorporated into London City district). In Middlesex. Sub-districts : West London North; West London South. GRO volumes : II (1838-51); 1c (1852-69). Barnard's Inn, Bridewell, Inner Temple, St. Andrew Holborn behind Bars, St. Bartholomew the Great, St. Bartholomew the Less, St. Bride, St. Dunstan in the West, St. Sepulchre (1838-45), St. Sepulchre without Newgate, Serjeants' Inn, Thavies Inn. Registers now in London City district.

James' age in 1848 on marriage cert was 20 and age on all censuses is consistent with birth year of 1830. {at least he was consistent with something!} nell

Theres this one too Nell. I like the age and place of death on this one. But if he didn't die untill 1877 where is he in 1861/1871. Having trouble finding him! Deaths Mar 1877 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- McCARTHY Callaghan 76 Holborn 1b 506 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fiona You clever clogs, you! Well both those deaths are the right name and the right area, Holborn/Clerkenwell/Farringdon are all adjoining. The earlier one would explain why he isn't on the 1851 census, but I wish they indexed age at death as a bit of a clue! Thanks - worth looking into. When is 1841 London going to be indexed, she whined?! nell

Hi Nell, The Genealogist web site has the 1841 index for London so I'm sure there must be others out there. Fiona.

Fiona I don't know how to thank you enough. If you hadn't found James McCarthy on the 1861, I would still be looking for a non-existent census return and a non-existent marriage. Cheers! nell