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Thank you Trixie. I have tied myself up in knots now, very confused. I assume I need to order the cert for John Edward's marriage and as a cross check, all I know is that wife was Charlotte. I can also give the 1851 census occupation, which is really useful, I would have said Musician otherwise. I feel I should be able to get more from IGI, but I never have much success with that. Thanks everyone.

This is the other Charlotte that married the same time. 2466 1851 CENSUS OF SWANSEA. REF.H.O.107/2466, E.D.14. Piece: 2466 Folio: 515 Schedule: 226 Address: GREYHOUND STREET BADHAM WILLIAM HD M 40 CAP MAKER HEF BROMYARD (c1811) BADHAM CHARLOTTE WI M 35 - SOM MILBORNE PORT (c1816) MILLER CHARLES LG M 68 BASKETMAKER DOR MIDDLEMARSH (c1783) MILLER JANE LG M 57 BASKETMAKER'S WIFE SOM MILBORNE PORT (c1794) WILLIAMS ELLIS LG M 76 CHELSEA PENSIONER MER DOLGELLAU (c1775) WILLIAMS MARTHA LG M 47 BUTCHER SCT FERRIDEN OF CRAIG (c1804) I know you don't need her but it might help working out which Charlotte is which. Trixie

I don't know if you need this: 2466 1851 CENSUS OF SWANSEA. REF.H.O.107/2466, E.D.6. Piece: 2466 Folio: 216 Schedule: 042 Address: 42 PRINCES STREET EDWARDS JOHN HD M 24 MAIL COACH GUARD GLA SWANSEA (c1827) EDWARDS CHARLOTTE WI M 20 - BRK ABINGDON (c1831) Hope it will help in some way. Trixie

I have come back home more blonde than beofore to think this through and I've lost the plot again.. If I order Birth Cert for Frederick - I will gain a mainden name for mum Charlotte. Have to assume that he was born in 1862 as there are no Frederick Edwards in Swansea in 63 or 64. Have had two relly's record wrong ages on Mgge cert so this wouldn't surprise me. Have had another look too at the 1881 - and cant find Frederick on there either, but I'm sure I must just be missing him. Charlotte seems to have disappeared by this time too. Where else to go now. Hmmmm.

Been to hairdressers and mulling this over. Have to go out for afternoon then need to sit and work things out. He must be the 1862 one. His marriage cert def states 32 on May 23rd 1896. The LDS one looks correct as Charlotte the mum. Frederick is Frederick Albert on marriage cert btw. Thank you all again :)

Hi Sally-Anne, I've found a couple of things which may be of some use to you. William John Edwards born abt. 1858 Swansea on 'Jane Cory' ( vessels) Gloucestershire,England in 1881 Census. Occupation First Mate. Reg. district - Bristol RG11/2469 fOLIO 16 PAGE -8. Then from LDS site Frederick Edwards born 1 June 1862 , christened 25 June 1862 - Saint Mary Swansea parents John and Charlotte. Have you considered that if John was a musician the family may have been travelling when census was taken? Best wishes Hilary

Do you have the reference for Fred then? Edwards is like Smith in Wales isnt it.

Yes Heather, you are right. Will order Frederick's as I at least know he is my GGG GF. Just don;t tell my husband about the cost! The only good thing about John Edwards was that he was a Musician, unusual occupation. Can't afford 100+ death certs tho :-/ Off the 1837 to order.

Bingo! On his marriage cert Frederick is a Stone Mason.... this David Hughes is too.. looks like he may have gone there to be apprentice. I guess I have no way of knowing if any other children after 1861 census.

Do you know they were twins? Do you have the certs for them? If one was born in the first three months of the year it would look as though they were the same age even if 11 months apart. On the 1871 Fred is shown born 1863. I thought this was good stuff. Cant see how you can find out mums name without buying a cert. I would buy one of those you think are a twin, which would clear up two probs.

Hmmm. I found this George as well, the only thing about that is Henry was born same year as Frederick - surely they weren't so heartless to split twins up!?!

And is this brother George farmed out as well? George Edwards abt 1855 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Nephew Llandingat Carmarthenshire Henry Edwards abt 1864 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Nephew Llandingat Carmarthenshire Jane Anne Edwards abt 1849 Llandovery, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Llandingat Carmarthenshire John Edwards abt 1844 Market Fedfil, Glamorgan, Wales Son Llandingat Carmarthenshire Mary Edwards abt 1816 Llandovery, Carmarthenshire, Wales Wife Llandingat Carmarthenshire Sarah Edwards abt 1846 Market Fedfil, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Llandingat Carmarthenshire Thomas Edwards abt 1856 Llandovery, Glamorgan, Wales Son Llandingat Carmarthenshire William Edwards abt 1812 Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire, Wales Head Llandingat Carmarthenshire William Edwards abt 1859 Llandovery, Glamorgan, Wales Son Llandingat Carmarthenshire

You are all fantastic! Had tried lots of variations for Fred but not Fer..! Don't recognise any of those names but I guess John Snr could have had a sister who married a Hughes. The children were very young to have been farmed out and mum go home to Berkshire. Sad if that's what happened. How can I find out Charlotte's maiden name? On Ancestry there are 2 marriages in Swansea on same sheet for John Edwards to Charlotte Fox and Charlotte Saunders. Any other way to know if either of these (have spent far too much money on certs already!)

Hi Sally-Ann, on the 1871 census England Have found a Charlotte Edwards born 1831 widow Abingdon Berks. Housekeeper in Gloucestershire. Will check for others Regards Vera

Possible for Fred? Do you recognise any of the names as family relatives? 1871 Feredrick Edwards abt 1863 Swansen, Glamorgan, Wales Cousin Llanelly Carmarthenshire David Hughes abt 1832 Llangammarch, Breconshire, Wales Head Llanelly Carmarthenshire Mary Hughes abt 1836 Llandovery, Carmarthenshire, Wales Wife Llanelly Carmarthenshire Henry Price abt 1858 Builth, Breconshire, Wales Nephew Llanelly Carmarthenshire

Well, no genius here, but looks like possibly mum has been widowed and working as a housekeeper in 1871? James Arkell abt 1846 Boddington, Gloucestershire, England Head Barton St Michael Gloucestershire Charlotte Edwards abt 1831 Abingdon, Berkshire, England Servant Barton St Michael Gloucestershire Shown as widow, housekeeper. Lots of possible deaths 1861-1871 for John Edwards unfortunately.

Help! I must be missing something. Have a Frederick Edwards marriage cert for 1896 in Swansea stating he was aged 32. His father is John Edwards, Dec'd Musician. Can find John on the 1861 Census: Charlotte Edwards abt 1831 Abingdon, Berkshire, England Wife Swansea Glamorgan George Edwards abt 1855 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Son Swansea Glamorgan John Edwards abt 1824 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Head Swansea Glamorgan John Edwards abt 1860 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Son Swansea Glamorgan Willian Edwards abt 1858 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Son Swansea Glamorgan Frederick obviously wasn't born then, and I seem to have lost the family in 1871, 1881... Someone is bound to be able to show me where it's staring me in the face! Thanks Sal