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UPDATED>>>>>>>> I have found a marriage that is confusing my tree..... Ann Maria RIDDING (now susan Cavill - see messages below... sorry got you looking for wrong person .....) & Harry Ambrose Mansell marriage june qtr 1880 WARE district. ................................................................................................................................................................................. Harry ambrose Mansell is living with his parents in 1881 census as unmarried listed as HENRY in 1881.(parents Theodore & Jemima) .................................................................................................................................................................................. harry ambrose mansell married again in 1886 to emily elizabeth Baker. ................................................................................................................................................................................... what happened to ann maria ridding. I found a possible death in 1885: march qtr 1885 hackney, age 37. this makes her born c1848. Harry ambrose was born in 1857. where was she in 1881? ........................................................................................... any ideas?

have you searched for Anne Maria Ridding / Mansell on the 1881 census??? When & where was Harry/Henry born? and where was he living in 1881?

yes i have looked in 1881 for ann maria ridding / annie maria ridding and both ann and annie as mansell. i have looked for annie mansell born c1848. i have serached familysearch and freebmd and trawlled through some pages at 1837online and nothing helps. i dont know where else to look (hence my request for help) i have also looked for other Harry Ambrose's incase its a different husband. i have looked for anns with harrys. a distant relative came to london to search through records and looked for harrys marriage and said its my one, but that leaves me more questions - she was 10 years older than him, cant find her in 1881, she died before 1886 as harry married again. the only possible ann maria/ annie maria is the death in 1885. i cant see it for looking, i wondered why harry ambrose with his parents in 1881 was listed as unmarried. the only ann maria ridding i could find was at IGI , it matches with that death age: ANN MARIA RIDDING Female Event(s): Birth: 09 JUN 1849 Christening: 08 JUL 1849 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, Saint Marylebone, London, England Parents: Father: RICHARD RIDDING Mother: MARIA ************************ harry: harry was born Harry Ambrose Mansell on 8th October 1857 at 10 Westover Street, Mile end old town. He was baptised 8th nov 1857 St Leonatrds shoreditch. he was always know as harry and never as henry. in 1881 he was a labourer of colour work living with parents at 6 anderson Street, london. listed as Henry a Mansell (i guess the enumerater presumed he was Henry) his parents were Theodore Sadlier Mansell & jemima Redhouse. They also had living with them a nurse child called Charles Norris. In 1901 he is listed as HARRY MANTELL, living Hackney, occupation Road Foreman. it says he was born stepney. he is with wife and children. harry and the second wife emily had 4 children.

Ok Just to help myself & others is this the family in 1881: Theodore L. MUNSELL Head M Male 66 Hoxton, Middlesex, England Pensioner E M I Dock St Jemima MUNSELL Wife M Female 58 Hoxton, Middlesex, England Henry A. MUNSELL Son U Male 23 Stepney Tower Hamlets Labourer Of Colour Work Charles NORRIS Nurse Child Male 5 Homerton Source Information: Dwelling 6 Anderson Road Census Place London, Middlesex, England Family History Library Film 1341066 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 0309 / 27 Page Number 32 If so have you any further documentation to clarify and enforce who Harry/Henry's parents are? The MC for instance to Baker in 1886?

On the ORIGINAL census it records him neither as Married or Single ...... there is a small mark it could be ' as in ditto for Do under his mothers recording.

sorry should have made it clearer, yes thats the family in 1881. thank you for looking up the original, he could have been married then.... also i have never found any connection with Charles Norris. i presume they took the child in just to look after and he is no connection.

Lisa I think to be honest the ONLY way your going to get any further with this is to purchaes the MC when you can afford too . This is a tough search for you without at least knowing her pa's name and her age. Was harry in Hertfordshire in 1871? or maybe Ann Maria was born there? Much happiness Debi

Working with the IGI you found in 1861 there is this combo of Maria & Richard View Record Mary A Benyan abt 1835 N Servant St Marylebone Middlesex View Record Ann Harter abt 1847 Richmond, Surrey, England Servant St Marylebone Middlesex View Record Charles S Ridding abt 1854 St Marylebone, Middlesex, England Son St Marylebone Middlesex View Record James B Ridding abt 1857 St Marylebone, Middlesex, England Son St Marylebone Middlesex View Record Maria Ridding abt 1820 Twickenham, Middlesex, England Wife St Marylebone Middlesex View Record Richard Ridding abt 1817 East Indies, Madras Head St Marylebone Middlesex View Record Richard Ridding abt 1846 St Marylebone, Middlesex, England Son St Marylebone Middlesex

In 1871: View Record Agnes Ready abt 1856 Hounslow, Middlesex, England Sister St Nicholas Deptford London View Record Ann Sophia Ready abt 1843 Hounslow, Middlesex, England Head St Nicholas Deptford London View Record Edward Ready abt 1845 Hounslow, Middlesex, England Brother St Nicholas Deptford London View Record Annie Maria Ridding abt 1850 Marylebone, Middlesex, England Cousin St Nicholas Deptford London

i dont think i have them in 1871. IN 1861 the family were called MARDELL. this was them in 1861: MARDELL, Theodore S Head Married M 46 Laborer West India... Shoreditch Middlesex MARDELL, Jemima Wife F 38 Sempstress At House Shoreditch Middlesex MARDELL, Charles Son M 7 Bethnal Green Middlesex MARDELL, Harry A Son M 3 Stepney Middlesex RG number:RG09 Piece:160 Folio:12 Page:18 Registration District:Hackney Sub District:Hackney Enumeration District:20 Ecclesiastical District:Homerton Parish:Hackney City/Municipal Borough: Address:7, Anderson Road, Hackney

i think we have the wrong family..... with maria and richard. i found these in 1881: Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Edward PORTER Head M Male 26 Marylebone, Middlesex, England Plumber Ann M. PORTER Wife M Female 31 Marylebone, Middlesex, England Milliner Maria RIDDING Mother In Law W Female 60 Twickenham, Middlesex, England Annuitant Lizzie A. SMITH Niece Female 3 Ware, Hertford, England Source Information: Dwelling Markfield Rd 44 Park Terrace Census Place Tottenham, Middlesex, England Family History Library Film 1341336 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 1383 / 84 Page Number 49 i think this is ann maria ridding:

Curious though that a child was born in WARE

Should we be looking for a Susan cavill then? lol Marriages Jun 1880 Cavill Susan Ware 3a 383 Mansell Harry Ambrose Ware 3a 383 PORTER Edward Ware 3a 383 RIDDING Ann Maria Ware 3a 383

i just found that too.... Marriages Jun 1880 Cavill Susan Ware 3a 383 Mansell Harry Ambrose Ware 3a 383 PORTER Edward Ware 3a 383 RIDDING Ann Maria Ware 3a 383 how can i be so wrong? sorry ....

i cant find any susan mansell either, but they way people spelt their surnames in 1861,81,1901 i guess we could be looking for a needle in a haystack. i cant find any susans death, still dont know why harry married in ware.

See why it's so important to get the BMD's? lol

yes, so sorry to have wasted all your time this morning. i had an email from a distant relation they are tracing Harrys mothers family and have thousands on their database. harrys mother is a problem as we cant find her parents either, we have names and nothing else, (but thats another story)apparently they are doing a one named study. they sent me a message saying they had ben to london to the family records office and discovered the following: jemima;s sons were Theodroe, Charles and Harry. Theodore died as infant. Charles married kate (have details) and harry married 1) to Ann Maria Ridding in Ware and 2) to Emily Elizabeth Baker. i did not think to check it. i will try to get the marriage cert pay day. and start from there.

maybe its time to take a break for lunch !!!!

You've not wasted my.......... we've just elimanted a possible partner is all. Good luck with the MC ......... Much happiness debi