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Thanks Brenda, I will pass the info on to Lou. I'm sure she would want me to pass on her gratitude, so THANK YOU. Elaine ;-)

Hi Elaine I looked for some wills for Lou: Peter Whittle: wills and admons 1862 and 1863 - no joy William Turner wills and admons 1865 and 1866 - no joy Both men were quite old, so I don't magine that there would have been much delay in proving their wills, if made. Best wishes Brenda

OK Brenda, Look forward (or maybe not !! lol) to hearing from you. I don't mind passing on bad news to Lou !!!!!!! Will wait to hear from you. Elaine ;-) Heather, don't worry about it babe ... she's knows we've tried are hardest. I will be contacting her tomorrow. Elaine ;-)

Hi Elaine I've got some (unrelated) failure to report for Lou. I'm at work at the moment, but will post details or pm you when I get home. Please send Lou my good wishes Brenda

Wish I could find it for her.

Message from Lou HELLO everyone .. and THANK YOU ! (Just been on mobile, so sorry if I am ignoring replies ). Lou has confirmed that the year in which John Thomas McWhire is a lodger (1871)...is DEFINATELY him. Elizabeth Curtis is his AUNTY !!!!!!!! so that verifies him on that one ! She has now given me some Streets where Mary Herrod and Husband John McWhire MAY have lived in 1841, so I'll go and check them out on the 1841 census. THANK YOU for all the help Elaine ;-)

When I saw that lot with his name - I was praying that 'Jane' the daughter was a mistrancription so I looked on the image hoping it was John, but no, sorry. I cant see him at all anywhere else. Can only think he was added to another family under their name? Or at school/workhouse/hospital?

Cheers Heather, yep, I've just sent her the details for the this last lot. I found them whilst I was checking all the various spellings. Jane McWhire was the ONLY birth I could find 1845 - 1950 under that spelling ... so I checked her out on the census's and have sent Lou the details ... incase anything rings a bell with her. I don't know what she knows about John Thomas ... she sent a letter with various lookup requests and also asked if I could give an opinion on the Grandchilds surname as she couldn't work out from her printed copy, what it said. I confirmed it was McQuire ... and found the birth .... but when I couldn't find him after 1851 I started to look at spelling variations and possible marriages etc ! I've been on it since 10am when postman came ! ... so please forgive my little errors !! Elaine ;-) The John McWhire I found in 1881 is a Grocer .... but we still don't know if THIS is the correct one .... although I personally think they are all the same person.

Sorry,didnt notice someone already found same one in 1871. As I said, does Lou know if he was a stationer? Not come up with anything on the 1861 yet. Im sure shes got this lot, but just for reference: View Record Alexander McWhire abt 1822 Ashton Under Lyme, Lancashire, England Head Ashton under Lyne Lancashire View Record Elizabeth A McWhire abt 1846 Dukinfield, Cheshire, England Daughter Ashton under Lyne Lancashire View Record Hannah McWhire abt 1852 Ashton Under Lyme, Lancashire, England Daughter Ashton under Lyne Lancashire View Record Jane McWhire abt 1849 Ashton Under Lyme, Lancashire, England Daughter Ashton under Lyne Lancashire View Record Martha McWhire abt 1860 Ashton Under Lyme, Lancashire, England Daughter Ashton under Lyne Lancashire View Record Mary McWhire abt 1863 Ashton Under Lyme, Lancashire, England Daughter Ashton under Lyne Lancashire View Record Sarah McWhire abt 1826 Manchester, Lancashire, England Wife Ashton under Lyne Lancashire View Record William McWhire abt 1854 Ashton Under Lyme, Lancashire, England Son Ashton under Lyne Lancashire

Thanks to both of you. x FC Girl .... that looks like him in 1861 !!! I'll take a look. Thanx ! Heather, I'm not sure about yours. Mainly because he's born in L'pool and Lou's is born Ashton. Also, because FC found him under correct spelling of name McWhire, I assume he should now stick with that spelling. I can NOT get on 1871 at all ... haven't been able to for a few days now. :-( ... I am (we !) are totally reliable on you good folks for 1871 ! I'll take a nosey at 1861 first, see who he's lodging with. I have explained to Lou, that I have a feeling he was 'without' parents by 1851, hence him being with Grandparents and the name being mispelt (possibly) dead complicated and confusing isn't it ! Cheers Lou ! Elaine ;-) Really appreciate the help . ********** JUST realised MY mistake ...FC yours is 1871, and Heather,yours is 1861 (and 71 now as well) Oh ..*** trust me to start getting it wrapped round my neck !!!!!!!!!!

What about this for `1871 - he is shown as a stationer? John Thos McWhire Age: 22 Estimated birth year: abt 1849 Relation: Lodger Household: View other family members Gender: Male Where born: Ashton, Lancashire, England Civil Parish or Township: Salford Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephan County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: View Image Condition as to marriage: View Image Education: View Image Employment status: View Image Occupation: View Image Source information: RG10/4019 Registration district: Salford Sub-registration district: Greengate ED, institution, or vessel: 24 Folio: 2 Page: 2 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 10 GSU Number: 846319

What about this kid? 1861: Name: John T Macguire Age: 14 Estimated birth year: abt 1847 Relation: Scholar Household: View other family members Gender: Male Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Liverpool Ecclesiatical parish: St Peter Town: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: View Image Condition as to marriage: View Image Education: View Image Employment status: View Image Occupation: View Image Source information: RG9/2673 Registration district: Liverpool Sub-registration district: St George ED, institution, or vessel: Blue Coat School School Lane Liverpool Folio: 134 Page: 6 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 1 GSU Number: 543010

possibly him in 1871?? Name: John Thos McWhire Age: 22 Estimated birth year: abt 1849 Relation: Lodger Household: View other family members Gender: Male Where born: Ashton, Lancashire, England Civil Parish or Township: Salford Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephan County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: View Image Condition as to marriage: View Image Education: View Image Employment status: View Image Occupation: View Image Source information: RG10/4019 Registration district: Salford Sub-registration district: Greengate ED, institution, or vessel: 24 Folio: 2 Page: 2

Oh bless her, when I can get my head round this I will try, she is such a helpful girl herself! Give her my love if you speak. You dont think it was King Herod and it was coming up to Christmas, do you? PS, Thank gawd it isnt one of her ******* Bibb lot.

1851 census has John Thomas McQuire aged 3 living with Herrod family in Ashton U Lyme as Grandchild to head, Joseph Herrod. Lou can't work out who's child he is. I have found a marriage on LancsBMD 1840 Mary A Herod ~ John McWHire ... a possible ? Joseph Herrod had a daughter Mary Ann Herrod b 1817. (note variations in surname spelling) I have checked Ancestry/FreeBMD/CheshireBMD/LancsBMD AND 1837online, 1845 - 1850 inclusive, the only LIKELY birth I can find for the Grandson John Thomas .... is Dec 1848 Ashton ~ Surname McQuire. So far so good. Can NOT find the grandchild on 1861 or 1871 THEN I find a marriage: John Thomas McWhire Suzanna Celia Revell Dec 1874 ASHTON This couple turn up on 1881 with kids... wife as Celia) John Thomas McWhire is supposedly born 1848 Ashton ... I 'REPEAT' ... !! There is NO birth entry under the surname McWhire. 1) Can anyone find this poor child under any of the surnames McWhire / McGuire / McQuire (not forgetting Mac .. )please in 1861 or 1871 Census. 2) Can anyone think of any other explanations or other thoughts on this ? Most welcomed ! Right, I'm off to the Post Office to send Lou the Ream of paper I have just collated for her !!! ... back later Thanks in anticipation Elaine .... & Lou x (Who sends her 'Hello's' to everyone who knows her

Lou is offline for a while now, and has asked for some assistance with her tree (no computer).. I'll explain the details below .... but surfice to say I've tried and failed ~ miserably !