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P.S. John James has not appeared on any census - although we have failed to find them on the c.1861so far. We got HIS name from his son's wedding certificate. Thanks again, Keren.

Thank you Everybody! I've just returned from my son's birthday party (head still ringing) - and I am stunned at all the replies and helpful suggestions! Thank you. Yes, those were the census entries were we got our details. We are having major trouble finding the children's births in Middlesex, so we thought we would try to track down a marriage instead. It will take us some time to go through all you messages - so thank you again. Keren.

Nell, East Dereham is what we locals call Dereham. There is a village called West Dereham across the otherside of the county virtually but East Dereham is a notable town and known throughout Norfolk as just Dereham.

At least you can send for the childs birth cert now. Well done peeps.

Can find no Fanny anysurname b. 1831 +/- a year in Dereham on 1851 census, but there are these two candidates: Frances Green abt 1832 East Dereham, Norfolk, England Daughter East Dereham Norfolk Frances Kenola abt 1832 East Dereham, Norfolk, England Kings Lynn Norfolk

IF Fanny was born 1831 then I doubt whether the marriage would have taken place as early as 1846 as suggested in the original request as she would have only been age 15? Suzanne

As the 'brother' is shown born only a year later but in Sheffield rather than Norfolk, do you think he should be down as bro in law? And Mary the wife who is born Dereham, down as sister? Meanwhile, this Fanny is in the 1851 of right age born in Dereham district. Just thought Id throw her in to confuse matters! Name: Fanny Calaby Age: 20 Estimated birth year: abt 1831 Relation: Daughter Household: View other family members Gender: Female Where born: Litcham, Norfolk, England Civil parish: Litcham County/Island: Norfolk Country: England Street address: View image Condition as to marriage: View image Occupation: View image Disability: View image Source information: HO107/1825 Registration district: Mitford Sub-registration district: Dereham ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Folio: 314 Page: 2 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 7

This looks like the same Edward Reynolds in 1851, it seems the family's younger children were born in Sheffield, not sure where Dereham comes in. Perhaps Mary in 1881 is Fanny's sister and Edward Reynolds her brother-in-law and not brother. Francis Reynolds abt 1807 Doncaster Head Sheffield Yorkshire Elizabeth Reynolds abt 1808 Nooton, Derbyshire, England Wife Sheffield Yorkshire Edward Reynolds abt 1832 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Sheffield Yorkshire Elizabeth Ann Reynolds abt 1838 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Sheffield Yorkshire Francis Reynolds abt 1807 Doncaster Head Sheffield Yorkshire Francis Reynolds abt 1846 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Sheffield Yorkshire Robert Reynolds abt 1850 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Sheffield Yorkshire

Is this her in 1881: Fanny James abt 1831 Dereham, Norfolk, Wife (Head) 3 Baron St, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Robinson Clarke abt 1857 Northorpe, Lincoln, England Boarder 3 Baron St, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Fanny James abt 1855 London, Middlesex, Daughter View Record James James abt 1856 London, London, Middlesex, England Son Willie James abt 1879 Sheffd, Grandson Sarah Marriott abt 1825 Dereham, Norfolk ,Edwd. Reynolds abt 1832 Sheffd, Yorkshire, Brother Mary A. Reynolds abt 1821 Dereham, Norfolk, Sister 3 Baron St, Since Edwd Edward Reynolds is described as Fanny's brother I imagine Reynolds was her maiden name, though Mary is also described as Reynolds despite being married. Maybe she should really be sister-in-law? I think there is some confusion over this entry as Fanny is described in relation to head of house as 'wife' although she is the first person named in the household, and it says 'widow' in the marital status column. nell

Going on 1881 find, this is 1871 census - new name, but children are same. Barbara (aka Fanny) is a journeyman upholsterer. A widow already Barbara James abt 1828 Dereham, Norfolk, England Head Ecclesall Bierlow Yorkshire Fanny James abt 1853 London, Middlesex, England Daughter James James abt 1857 London, Middlesex, England Son

Cant find a Fanny James born Dereham in the 1851 so we can be fairly confident they werent married before then. For the right area, rightish age, there are two John James: View Record Elizabeth James abt 1836 Leziate, Norfolk, England Daughter Leziate Norfolk View Record Henry James abt 1828 Grimstone, Norfolk, England Son Leziate Norfolk View Record John James abt 1826 Grimston, Norfolk, England Son Leziate Norfolk View Record Mary Ann James abt 1825 Middleton, Norfolk, England Daughter-in-law Leziate Norfolk View Record William James abt 1796 Westacre, Norfolk, England Head Leziate Norfolk Ag labs The other one is on his own but born Swaffham, again an ag lab

What about this from 1881 Robinson Clarke abt 1857 Northorpe, Lincoln, England Boarder 3 Baron St, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England >> Fanny James abt 1831 Dereham, Norfolk, England Wife (Head) 3 Baron St, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Fanny James abt 1855 London, London, Middlesex, England Daughter James James abt 1856 London, London, Middlesex, England Son Willie James abt 1879 Sheffd, Yorkshire, England Grandson Sarah Marriott abt 1825 Dereham, Norfolk, England Sister Edwd. Reynolds abt 1832 Sheffd, Yorkshire, England Brother Mary A. Reynolds abt 1821 Dereham, Norfolk, England Sister If this is the right one, Fanny is a widow. Occupation - upholsterer. If you have sisters' marriage details, obtaining their marriage cert would give you maiden names - unless you order birth cert of one of Fanny's children

Is this the couple from 1861, if so, Fanny wasn't born Dereham: John James abt 1801 Rushall, Norfolk, England Head Barsham Suffolk Fanny James abt 1808 Hedingham, Norfolk, England Wife Barsham Suffolk Samuel James abt 1806 Barsham, Suffolk, England Brother Barsham Suffolk Oops, just saw your Fanny wasn't born till 1831, so obviously not! nell

Im afraid Norwich has 'a church for every week of the year and a pub for every day of the year' so not an easy job. Though if they were in Swaffham/Dereham, Lynn may have been the nearer choice for them. I think you need to get the childrens certificates to find mums name. I assume you have them on a census and that you have checked all other possible online resources? You could then get the marriage cert which would give all those details you are looking for.

Hi, The only easy way is to buy the certificates, unless you know the name of the church. A search through all possible churches would take hours. Gwynne

Have you found them on the Censuses? When and Where were their children born? Suzanne

Hi Christopher Can I ask where you got the names of John James and Fanny from please? Suzanne

Is any body going to the Norfolk Records Office soon? Dad and I are desperately struggling trying to find the marriage of one of our ancestors, 'FANNY' (born Dereham approx. 1831) with a 'JOHN JAMES' who was possibly a farmer. We know nothing else about him and do not know her maiden name (although we have found her two married sisters.) We have found three possible marriages: 1.) Sept 1846 Quarter - Freebridge Lynn John James married Frances Disciplin 13 225; 2.) Dec 1851 Quarter - Norwich - John James married Frances Metcalf Cardwell 13 711, and 3.) in 1852 another John James was married in Swaffham but we do not know the name of his bride 4b 1059. If anyone can supply any further information about any of these marriages - ages, husband's occupation, fathers' names etc. we would be very grateful. Keren Charlton.