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Thanks Lorraine!!!! Betty Boo

Thanks everyone for all your help you've been brilliant. Am gonna go and write all my notes up now

A George Hill fromCroydon married an Ann Moon in 1941. Its possible it's him

Ok thanks Elaine

Hi Lorraine, Never understood WHY the IGI have the word 'Family' after the name .... it just refer's to the 'family' I suppose. Nothing to worry about, we're not missing anything ! Elaine ;-)

Yes must be Lib will find it and print off so I can get a certificate

Why does it say Mary Ann Gardiner Family

This looks like the marriage: Name: Gardiner, Mary Ann Record Type: Marriages Quarter: June Year: 1848 District: Croydon County: Surrey Volume: 4 Page: 80 Year Quarter Record Type District County View Record Cole, Thomas 1848 June Marriages Croydon Surrey >>>View Record Gardiner, Mary Ann 1848 June Marriages Croydon Surrey View Record Green, Frances 1848 June Marriages Croydon Surrey View Record HAYWARD, Eliza Ann 1848 June Marriages Croydon Surrey >>>View Record HILL, George 1848 June Marriages Croydon Surrey View Record Mason, William 1848 June Marriages Croydon Surrey View Record Snooks, Elizabeth 1848 June Marriages Croydon Surrey View Record Turner, Richard 1848 June Marriages Croydon Surrey Going off the birth date of Emma Hill c1846 it's possible George was married before he married Mary Ann Gardiner. Unless they lived 'over the brush'... so to speak!

The plot thickens: JOHN SAMUEL GARDINER Birth: Christening: 23 NOV 1838 Saint John The Baptist, Croydon, Surrey, England Parents: Mother: MARY ANN GARDINER Family Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

I think your right Jeanette

Yes seems she could've re-married would explain name change

I reckon John is Mary's son her maiden name must be Gardener and Emma Gardner must be her sister or she was married before and that is her SIL. Jeanette

I'm guessing ... but any chance George Hill married Mary Gardner ... sometime after 1841, or have you got a marriage cert etc that says otherwise ? Elaine ;-)

In 1851 there is a Emma Gardener visiting too, could be sister of Mary! Perhaps he is a child from mum's first marriage or he could be her illegitimate son.

In the 1851 census there is a visitor Emma Gardner

thats a strange one isnt it!

Wonder why John's name changed to Gardner ???????? ! 1841: Ann Gardner 40 Seamstress (Y) Mary Gardner 20 Seamstress (N) <--- NOT b in Surrey Margaret Gardner 15 (N) John Gardner 2 (Y) Wonder if MARY aged 20 married after 1841 ??? High Street, Croydon, Surrey

1861 Census: (cant read address) George Hill abt 1819 London, Middlesex, England Head Croydon Surrey Mary Hill abt 1821 London, Middlesex, England Wife Croydon Surrey John Gardener abt 1839 Croydon, Surrey, England Son Croydon Surrey Emma Hill abt 1846 Croydon, Surrey, England Daughter Croydon Surrey William Doad abt 1798 Cheshire, England Uncle Croydon Surrey Alfred Simmonds abt 1851 Croydon, Surrey, England Visitor Croydon Surrey George is a General Dealer. John is a Carman (unmarried). Emma is a domestic servant. William is a shoemaker (Widow) Suzanne

I've just re checked for John Hill b Croydon, 1839 .... he's not coming up within my search. Don't understand it ? Elaine ;-(

1861: George is a general dealer. William Doad is a shoe maker.(widower) Alfred Simmonds is a Carman John Gardener is a Carman. (single) Emma is a Domestic servant. Address, Myrtle Street East. View Record William Doad abt 1798 Cheshire, England Uncle Croydon Surrey View Record John Gardener abt 1839 Croydon, Surrey, England Son Croydon Surrey View Record Emma Hill abt 1846 Croydon, Surrey, England Daughter Croydon Surrey View Record George Hill abt 1819 London, Middlesex, England Head Croydon Surrey View Record Mary Hill abt 1821 London, Middlesex, England Wife Croydon Surrey View Record Alfred Simmonds abt 1851 Croydon, Surrey, England Visitor Croydon Surrey RG9/450 Registration district: Croydon Sub-registration district: Croydon ED, institution, or vessel: 23 Folio: 120 Page: 45 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 267 GSU Number: 542640 Lib:))