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I have a funny feeling that the marriage cert will be looking rather 'blank' where fathers name should be !! which is possibly why its NOT been obtained yet.! Thanks so much you two xxxx Elaine ;-) ... off to get some sugar from shop ---- cuppa on it's way !

Elaine, it's no where near as confusing as my lot :) Once they get the marriage cert, it'll all drop into place. (unlike mine, which always causes more questions than answers! lol)

Blimey, thats thrown the cat amongst the pigeons ..... 2 possibles for 1851 .... but I do think that Tracey's is most likely. ! Yes, Oakthorpe has been mentioned ! Maybe my 1841 find is (again!!) the wrong Thomas ... who just happens to be living in Measham :-( I can recheck '41 ............... with more info to go on. I did think that John is the son of Thomas (Grandad) ... which I why I couldn't pull myself away from John being the father of THE Thomas .... see how confusing it gets !! Thanks Rose and Tracey .......... I really appreciate the help ..... you have both certainly helped to put everything into perspective .... but then, I had no doubt what so ever that by throwing the puzzle on here, you brilliant lot would sort it !! Elaine ;-) The other problem I had was that Swanwick, Oakerthorpe and Measham are in BOTH Leicester & Derbyshire ... the only stable place I had was Alfreton !!!

Looks like I have found the wrong Dennis family on the 1851. Rose

Found em! 1851 Thomas Dennes abt 1801 Martham, Derbyshire, England Head Oakthorpe Leicestershire Mary Dennes abt 1838 Oakthorpe, Derbyshire, England Daughter Oakthorpe Leicestershire Anne Knight abt 1849 Asby, Leicestershire, England Granddaughter Oakthorpe Leicestershire Didn't Thomas Jnr mention Oakethorpe? :)

1841: Thomas Dennis 46 <<< this makes him b 1795 ???? Ann 45 Thomas 10 Charles 6 Ann 12 Eliza 8 Mary 4 Living Measham, Derbyshire ( 3miles from Ashby de la Zouch !

In 1861, next door to Thomas, is John Dennis. Probably a son. He could be the father of the Dennis Grandchildren. Next door to him, is a Storer family. Probably the one William belongs to. In 1871, instead of being a Storer, Elizabeth is a Dennis again. So you're probably right about Mary and William.

Here's grandpa Thomas on the 1851: Henery Dennis abt 1847 Ashby De La Z, Leicestershire, England Son Ashby de la Zouch Leicestershire Jane Dennis abt 1804 Ashby De La Z, Leicestershire, England Wife Ashby de la Zouch Leicestershire Jane Dennis abt 1839 Ashby De La Z, Leicestershire, England Daughter Ashby de la Zouch Leicestershire Richard Dennis abt 1833 Ashby De La Z, Leicestershire, England Son Ashby de la Zouch Leicestershire Sarah Dennis abt 1832 Ashby De La Z, Leicestershire, England Daughter Ashby de la Zouch Leicestershire Susannah Dennis abt 1836 Ashby De La Z, Leicestershire, England Daughter Ashby de la Zouch Leicestershire Thomas Dennis abt 1807 Ashby De La Z, Leicestershire, England Head Ashby de la Zouch Leicestershire Thomas Dennis abt 1838 Ashby De La Z, Leicestershire, England Son Ashby de la Zouch Leicestershire Rose

You have both found the same family on 71 then ! Sorry, I should have read all the info properly. 1871: I did wonder IF Mary was the mother of all the kids on the 1871 census ...... 1861: Mary Storer - could this be Mary Dennis ? and the mother of all the kids from 1871. I can only assume that Mary Dennis & William Storer were NOT married, but just living as man & wife .... I have looked for a possible marriage but come up blank (searched 1855 - 1862) I can NOT find ANY of them on the 1851 ...... and the 1841 has the Thomas Dennis bc1800 living in Measham, Leicester, wife ANN, with a Mary as daughter aged 4. I think that the 1851 would be the key to all this ... but I've searched under variations till I'm blue in the face and crossed eyed ... I can't find them ... but it WAS 2am this morning !!! I THINK that you may both have come up with the answer .......... Elaine ;-)

Hi ... and thanks ! Both marriages took place in the Belper district - so Alfreton rather than Leicester. Rose .... you may have the correct family ! will have to go and re read the info you have left ..... !! Tracey, that Grandfather with Thomas & Charles Grandson's ..... I have seen and HAVE wondered about ! .... but in conjunction with what Rose found Thomas 1801 Head ... I think we might be onto something .... just need to go and re read the info ... bac in a tick ! Elaine ;-)

Same family on 1861: Charles Dennis abt 1857 Alfreton, Derbyshire, England Grandson Alfreton Derbyshire Thomas Dennis abt 1801 Meshaw, Leicestershire, England Head Alfreton Derbyshire Thomas Dennis abt 1853 Alfreton, Derbyshire, England Grandson Alfreton Derbyshire Elizabeth Storer abt 1860 Alfreton, Derbyshire, England Granddaughter Alfreton Derbyshire Mary Storer abt 1837 Alfreton, Derbyshire, England Daughter Alfreton Derbyshire William Storer abt 1833 Alfreton, Derbyshire, England Lodger Alfreton Derbyshire Address: Derby Road. Rose

I found one in Alfreton, but he's an illegitimate son. Living with his Grandparents, mother and siblings.

Elaine, Do you think this might be the right Thomas on the 1871? Annie Dennis abt 1865 Alfreton, Derbyshire, England Granddaughter Alfreton Derbyshire Arthur Dennis abt 1867 Alfreton, Derbyshire, England Grandson Alfreton Derbyshire Charles Dennis abt 1857 Wingfield, Derbyshire, England Grandson Alfreton Derbyshire Elizabeth Dennis abt 1861 Alfreton, Derbyshire, England Granddaughter Alfreton Derbyshire Luke Dennis abt 1863 Alfreton, Derbyshire, England Grandson Alfreton Derbyshire Mary Dennis abt 1836 Wingfield, Derbyshire, England Daughter Alfreton Derbyshire Richard Dennis abt 1870 Alfreton, Derbyshire, England Grandson Alfreton Derbyshire Thomas Dennis abt 1801 Ashby De La Zouch, Leicestershire, England Head Alfreton Derbyshire Thomas Dennis abt 1854 Wingfield, Derbyshire, England Grandson Alfreton Derbyshire Address: 13 Park Street. Thomas is a coal miner. Rose

Did they marry in Leicester or Derby?

I'm trying to ascertain who Thomas's parents are !!!! 1901: (Alfreton, Derbyshire) Park St Thomas Dennis 47 (B1854 Oakesthorpe, Leicester) <<<< Sarah 24 b Merehay,Derbys (WIFE) (Nee Radford) John 23 b 1878 - Son Stephen 21 b 1880 Harriett 15 b 1886 Sarah 13 b 1888 Bernard 10 b 1891 Lilly 8 b 1893 .... Sarah's Child Dora 3 b 1898 ...Sarah's child William 1 b 1900 ... Sarah's child (Next door is the eldest son Thomas with wife Annie) Thomas Dennis married Sarah Radford in Sept 1895 They had apparently been having an affair whilst Thomas was still married to his first wife ...... BUT .... wife Harriett died in 1893. (may have been shock of other woman having his baby!) 1891: Alfreton, Derbyshire 12 Collier Road Thomas Dennis 36 Coal Miner b Alfreton NOT Leicester Harriett 35 b Alfreton Thomas 14 Newspaper Seller b John 12 Stephen 10 Martha 8 Mary Ann 6 Harriett 5 Sarah 3 Bernard 3mths 1881: 10 Colliery Road, Alfreton Thomas Dennis 27 Coal Miner ..says he's b Leicester** again ! Harriett 24 b Alfreton Thomas 4 John 3 Stephen 1 Thomas Dennis married Harriet Searston June 1875 ....NO MARRIAGE cert yet. This is where the difficulty sets in............ Can't find a Thomas Dennis aged 16 or 17 on the 1871 census or before. Have found a John Dennis & wife Sarah with son Thomas aged 15 on 1871 living at 8 Colliery Road .... but in 1881 this same family still has Thomas as a son living with them and they have gone to 6 Park St ... where they are in 1891 as well ....*note where Thomas is living on 1901* !!! I HAD followed Thomas down through John & Lydia all the way to 1841, where they are living in Measham, Derbyshire ( very close to Ashby de la Zouch) believing that Thomas Dennis b 1854/5/6/7 ... was the son of John & Lydia ... but when I saw that John & Lydia had son Thomas still with them on the 1881, when Thomas is married to Harriett.... I had to think again. HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPP !!!! I HAVE suggested that the marriage cert to Harriett would hopefully confirm Fathers name ..... but in the meantime, does anyone want to have a look and see if they can find anything different. Have checked all the births for Thomas Dennis between 1854 - 1857, 3 - all in Ashby de la Zouch, Leicester.... within 9 mths of each other.... none in Belper/Alfreton I have been back and forth, up and down the census's, meeting myself coming back .... and there is stuff I haven't included on here ... so if you have questions - just ask ! Elaine ;-)

..this isn't for me ... but I spent quite a few hours yesterday afternoon/evening on this and came up with wrong answers! ... so wondering if anyone else can come up with different result. ...warning ... no marriage cert obtained yet .... see below