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Hi Margaret This could well be the case. I hadn't thought of that. Will have a look. What makes it more intriguing is that I have an Elizabeth Brook Kalthoeber in a separate record and I thought therefore that Annie Brooks would have been the person that Harry had married. Thanks for the suggestion. Ron

Hi Ronald. Do you think Georgiana called herself Annie for short. I had an Annie on a census who married as Annie. I couldnt find her birth . I received a message from a relative of the man she married and found her name was really Phoebe Ann. She had the birth and death cert with the correct parents. Im thinking this might be the case for you. Try looking for her death and see what she was called. Margaret

Sorry Off to bed now. Will look at replies in the morning Ron

Hi Maureen, how are you? I think you've hit on something but I'm still a bit confused. Can't figure out where Annie Kalthoeber comes into it??

1881 Name: William C. Duck Age: 2 Estimated birth year: abt 1879 Relation: Son Where Born: London, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Marlebone County/Island: London Country: England Street address: 8 Bolsover St Source information: RG11/136 Registration district: Marylebone Sub registration district: All Souls ED, institution, or vessel: 13a Folio: 103 Page: 14 GSU Number: 1341030 Ada F. Duck London, Middlesex, England Daughter Agnes Duck abt 1860 Bath, Somerset, England Boarder Georginia Duck abt 1857 Bristol, Gloucestershire, England Wife William C. Duck abt 1855 Bath, Somerset, England Head Found this marriage Name: William Charles Duck Year of Registration: 1877 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Islington County: Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 1b Page: 420 Georgina Cooper, Frederick James Price, Sarah Taylor Not found her on 1871 1861 Name: Georgiana Cooper Age: 4 Estimated birth year: abt 1857 Relation: Daughter Where born: Bristol, Somerset, England Civil parish: St Pancras Ecclesiastical parish: Pancras County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Source information: RG9/117 Registration district: Pancras Sub-registration district: Camden Town ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Folio: 25 Page: 44 Household schedule number: 261 GSU Number: 542576 Martha Cooper abt 1826 Middlesex, England Head Elizh Cooper abt 1853 Islington, Middlesex, England Daughter Maureen

I have now obtained the marriage certificate of Harry Kalthoeber for 1893. Contrary to what I and others on this thread had expected when I first started it, he married Georgina Duck, not Annie Brooks, on 8 October 1893. He was 34, a bachelor, a carver and gilder and his father was William Napoleon Kalthoeber. She was also 34, a widow and her father was Thomas Cooper. Can someone please help me unravel the details on this thread as I have to say I'm totally confused at the moment. To make matters more intriguing I also have a census reference (can't find it at the moment) for another kalthoeber ancestor where Brook(s) is shown as a middle name. Ron

Ozibird and Reggie Thanks for your continued interest in this. I must confess to being a little confused at the moment and need to sit in a darkend room!! Will consider it further at the weekend. Reggie I would be interested in seeing the 1901 image and have sent you a PM. Most grateful Regards Ron

Annie's occupation on 1901 was Duster Reg

No, nor I............but the 1901 is very intriguing...... Reg

Mmmmmmmmmmm..................1891 Ada Duck abt 1881 Islington, London, England Daughter St Pancras London View Record Georgina Duck abt 1860 Bristol, Gloucestershire, England Head St Pancras London View Record Lily Duck abt 1883 Marylebone, London, England Daughter St Pancras London View Record William Duck abt 1879 Islington, London, England Son St Pancras London The plot thickens.............I've saved the image for 1901........if you'd like me to forward it, send e-mail details via PM Reg

The Ducks on 1901 are sons/daughters of Annie, so she must have been a Duck before she was a Brooks........... Reg

Thanks Ozibird Just off to work but very grateful for your additional input. Will ponder over it tonight Regards Ron

Thanks again Joanne I have most of the Kalthoeber bmds but can't find Harry senior. Most grateful for your help nonetheless. Ron

Joanne Yes, Lettice is one of mine and I had that death ref thanks Reg If Annie is a widow why can't I find death ref for Harry senior between 1893 and 1901, unless of course he's been mistranscribed? Regards All Off to bed now

another Kalthoeber death for you... William Napoleon Kalthoeber, age 79, pancras, volume 1b page 10 June quarter 1896

Joanne That's the correct birth ref as I have other 'Basham' relatives. Thanks for info. Reggie Can't figure out where Harry senior is in 1901, but junior is with mother Annie

Just going through the death indexes.... not sure if this is one of yours......... Death March Quarter 1900 Kalthoeber, Lettice, age 78, district: Pancras, volume 1b page 4

Thanks everyone That's a real puzzle with the little Ducks, especially, as you say Reggie, considering the marriage ref to Georgina Duck. I think I must obtain the marriage cert. Ron

He married Annie..she's a widow in 1901............and very strangely, she has three little Ducks...........bearing in mind the other marriage on the page!! Reg

1901 England Census View Record Ada Duck abt 1881 Islington, London, England Daughter St Pancras London View Record Charles Duck abt 1879 Islington, London, England Son St Pancras London View Record Lily Duck abt 1883 Marylebone, London, England Daughter St Pancras London View Record Annie Kalthoeber abt 1861 Bristol Head St Pancras London View Record Harry Kalthoeber abt 1894 St Pancras, London, England Son St Pancras London View Record Horace Kalthoeber abt 1897 St Pancras, London, England Son St Pancras London Looks like Annie Brooks